What is the black java chicken?
In this fascinating episode of Poultry Nerds, Jennifer is joined by Jeanette from The Livestock Conservancy and Deborah from High Ground Farm to shine a spotlight on one of America’s rarest heritage chicken breeds — the Black Java. Thought to be nearly extinct, these beautiful long-backed birds boast rich green iridescent plumage, gentle temperaments, and deep historical roots dating back to the early 1800s.
Deborah shares her firsthand experience raising Java chickens since 1999 and explains why they’re perfect for homesteaders. Jeanette offers expert insight into conservation efforts, census data, and the challenges of keeping this breed alive in the face of industrial agriculture trends.
If you've never heard of the Java chicken — or thought they were extinct — this episode is a must-listen! Discover where to find them, how to raise them, and how YOU can help preserve this incredible piece of poultry history.
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Jennifer: 0:25
Welcome back Poultry nerds. I'm Jennifer and Carrie is MIA. Today he is out on a delivery and didn't make it back. So I'm here with Jeanette from the Livestock Conservancy and Deborah from High Ground Farm. We had a request to discuss Black Javas, and so I invited you guys here to tell us all about'em. And quite honestly, I had never heard of them before, so it was news to me to get that email. So how are you guys doing today?
Jeanette: 1:01
I'm
Jennifer: 1:01
great.
Jeanette: 1:03
Doing great. Yeah, always happy to talk chickens.
Jennifer: 1:09
So Jeanette is returning. She was here. We talked about turkeys. Did we talk about turkeys?
Jeanette: 1:17
I think. I think so. I don't know. We, we went, of course,
Jennifer: 1:23
we went through down some rabbit holes on your trip across Europe. I do remember that. And somehow we got off on some pigs on an Indian reservation too. Like we just totally went to left field. I remember all of that stuff. But Debra, it's nice to meet you. Can you tell us about yourself and where you are and all that good stuff?
Deborah: 1:42
Sure. I live in the middle part of North Carolina and have been here for a long time. I started with Java Chickens in 1999 and it all spun out of an article that was in Mother Earth News at the time about the Java chicken, which they thought was extinct. But they discovered, some in the Midwest and Garfield Farm. Collaborated with the museum of let's see, what's it called? Jeanette, correct me if I'm wrong. Industry,
Jeanette: 2:12
museum of Industry.
Deborah: 2:14
It it was science and industry.
Jeanette: 2:16
Science and industry.
Deborah: 2:17
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I always get it mixed up. And I became involved with that project and got lots of job at chickens, chicks from them and have kept clothes flock since. I still have them. They're lovely. They're just wonderful breed. I had chickens before that, but there's nothing that compares in my mind. They're the best for me.
Jennifer: 2:40
I'm looking at a picture of'em in the standard of perfection, and honestly, they look a lot like a black orpington.
Deborah: 2:48
Yes. Similar. Jeanette, you can speak on this as well, but from my understanding, they were one of the original chickens brought in from the, from Asia. Not sure exactly of the origin, but there are people that think that probably from the Olive Java but can't be certain about that, but probably the early 18 hundreds, perhaps earlier they were home. Yeah. Go ahead
Jeanette: 3:12
and we're not really sure what the connection is to, to Asia. It the thing about the Java compared to the Orpington is there's a big difference in their profile. And Javas have the longest back of the American class. And so if you look at them in an orpington. Side profiles, the Javas, you'll just see these super long backs and they look completely different. And they also have different leg color and there's some other differences too. But the Javas they're our second oldest American breed. The only animal that's been recorded earlier than the Javas is the Dominique Chicken. And they've been around for a long time. They say as early as 1835, but they think that they could have been around even longer than that. So they've really got a connection with American history here.
Deborah: 4:11
Yes, that's, I think that's a very good point. And, for me as a homesteader and, or homestead life liver the non-aggression particularly of the roosters and the docile of the hens. And the hands of, nurturing just innate personalities, just makes them such a nice bird to have round. So yeah, that's
Jeanette: 4:34
important for homesteaders.
Deborah: 4:36
I agree. And this is my hypothesis, certainly nothing to prove it, but I believe that because they were around the house and, probably free ranging for a long time, the ones that were aggressive just, made it to the table and they were naturally weeded out. I've had Java of course all this time, and I've kept as many as six or seven roosters at a time. I have never had an aggressive rooster. I should knock on wood somewhere, but, and they have, great long spurs, they defend their flock. They're vigilant with their flock, but not with humans. I've just not seen that in mine anyway.
Jennifer: 5:15
Why do you think they're on the endangered list?'cause that's where they are, right?
Jeanette: 5:21
Yeah, they're critically endangered right now. And the last census we did, we found only 327 breeding birds in the US And a lot of that has to do with the museum of Science and Industry getting outta Java.'cause they used to produce a lot of Javas. Because they had the. The incubator that people could watch, chicks being hatched at the museum. And when they stopped that that really put a dent in Java populations.'cause prior to that the census we did in 2015 we actually had found almost 2000 breeding birds out there. And then it plummeted to 327 after that. It's, it goes to show you that when you put most of your eggs in one basket, if that basket disappears you can get a breed can get in big trouble quick. Yeah. It was unfortunate, but, there's some living history museums now that are interested in having breeding groups and, that's got me excited because that not only helps, create new breeding groups, but it exposes the breed to new audience that maybe had never heard of them before. So that's really exciting.
Deborah: 6:38
Yes, I believe raising awareness and just getting the name out there and the dire situation they're in had will really help. There was a time that I. Was involved selling eggs and other produce to Whole Foods market and just talking about Javas and just, making people aware of their plight and their role in history, I think. Beneficial. So anything we can do to raise awareness, I believe is important. Back to your, I'm sorry, go ahead. There's a delay. I was gonna saying it's,
Jeanette: 7:11
and it's, thanks to Deborah. We were able to get Old World Wisconsin a start in Javas and, I drove all the way to Nashville and the Wisconsin folks drove down to Nashville to meet me to get a bunch of chicks that we had hatched out from Deborah's eggs. And they're super excited about the Java. And in their gift shop, they have a. Custom developed Java chicken stuffy that they sell. Yeah, it's quite cute. Even has correct leg color, so Of course.
Deborah: 7:46
But of course,
Jeanette: 7:46
yes, of course.
Deborah: 7:48
I think you know, the interest like the the Amer, what is it, the American Java Club there's a lot of interest there. I get lots of questions from them and people of course, that want hatching eggs. And so every time a group hatches eggs, there's a celebration. That they have expanded the numbers a bit. But you are back to your question, Jennifer, about, while they fell out of favor, I think there's multiple reasons, and one is that they grow very slowly. Other chickens are mature and ready for the table at about six to eight weeks, and Javas are, a fraction of that weight. They just grow very slowly. And then also they have black feathers and they're very difficult to remove for selling the meat because the pin feathers of course, remain and look dark and people. Don't like that. So I think there's reasons that it fell out of favor with industrialized chicken production.
Jennifer: 8:45
So I would, I raised standard orpingtons, so we're looking at what, nine, 10 months for them to be roughly full size. Is that about the same for the Javas?
Deborah: 8:57
Probably yes. They start laying at about 24 weeks, maybe 26 weeks in contrast to some of the more mainstream birds that might be laying at 20. And then table size, if you were growing them from meat, I would guess yes, probably nine or 10 months old. What would you think Jeanette?
Jeanette: 9:18
It, it depends what meat product you want because you can butcher'em at any age. But you need to ask yourself, do you want a fryer? Do you want a roaster, do you want a broiler? So it, it depends. Typically I find with the slower growing birds, that if you want a fryer which you can cook with a higher heat methods. You could probably get a fryer by about, 14 weeks. Then if you wanna get a nice table bird, like a broiler or a roaster, now you're talking 18 to 20 weeks. And the roaster may be a bit. Later, I think that the Java roosters really come into their own after they're a year old. Maybe by the time they're two years old. And the thing that I've found really fascinating is at least in Deborah's hands, they're pretty long lived. They're, and they're productive very long too. Yes. Yeah. If you go to our website and go to our Java page, you'll see a picture of one of her beautiful roosters, and I think he was probably four or five years old when I took that picture. And he still looks like a cocker. He just looks beautiful nicely fleshed out. And you'll see that super long back that they have. Yes. Yeah. The other thing that's been a bit of a challenge with Javas is, the a PA recognizes only two color varieties, the black and the modeled. But people like to play with color and a lot of times you'll get white sports or what we call Auburn sports. And, dang, if the whites aren't like the biggest ones, it's always those off-color birds that are the, end up being the biggest. But they're not a PA varieties. And for the conservancies work, we're really concentrate on the black and the modeled and the black in part. Is challenging'cause people again, color and so they migrate towards the model more, which leaves the black Java. The because as Deborah said cleaning them when you're processing can be a bit challenging if they've got black pin feathers. The funny thing is, back in the day before industrialization. People with black chickens would boast about how clean their carcasses was because were, because they were black chickens and they wanted to ensure their customers that they were beautifully dressed and that they took pride in making a a beautiful table bird with these black feathered birds. But the models definitely are doing better than the Black Javas. And I was able to encourage old World, Wisconsin to concentrate on the black variety since, there's not a ton of folks, but I will say, the, the Facebook group that, that Deborah had mentioned the Java Breeders of America. There are nearly 600 people in that group. Oh yeah.
Deborah: 12:53
Huge interest. Yes. And they all boas when they hatch eggs, they all show their chicks and boast on, how many they hatched and how they look and all. So I'm real pleased. I've met some lovely people there that now, we talk on the phone now, so it's a great outreach and a great way to raise awareness about the Java chicken.
Jeanette: 13:13
Yeah, it would be nice. Nice to see more in on the show side of things.'cause I go to some of the bigger poultry shows in the US and you don't see that many Javas and, in order,
Deborah: 13:27
no, go ahead. Go ahead. I don't wanna
Jeanette: 13:28
garner interest. Even more. I think it would be helpful if we could get some really good quality Java on the show floor.
Deborah: 13:37
Yes, the first, maybe the second year that I had them, I entered them into the North Carolina State Fair and of course, one, all the ribbons of course, because they were the only job was there. But after that I became quite worried about them picking up some disease and so did not take them back. And I think that, for me, because I take biosecurity quite seriously, that for me has been a barrier. Perhaps, in the future that'll be something they'll have some strategies to work around that issue.
Jennifer: 14:10
So tell me about the breed club. How active and open is that?
Deborah: 14:14
Do you mean on Facebook?
Jennifer: 14:16
Just tell, is there a breed club?
Deborah: 14:19
Yes. There's the, what did you call it? Jeanette Java.
Jeanette: 14:22
That was the Facebook group. I don't think there's an actual a PA sanction club. I don't think so either. But Facebook group is the next best thing. And and it seems to be a very active community there.
Jennifer: 14:36
Yes. So one of the things I'm looking at in the SOP. Is they have black shanks, but they have yellow feet. Is that right? Exactly.
Deborah: 14:47
Yes. So they have lovely black tops. The legs are black, the skin, and then the tops of the feet are black and the toenails are black. But then underneath, when you turn it over, the soles of the feet are yellow.
Jennifer: 15:00
How hard is that as a breeder to maintain that?
Deborah: 15:04
It's tricky.
Jennifer: 15:05
And I'm always
Deborah: 15:06
looking at feet. Yes. And then there'll be one that pops up that's a little pink, and you think, where did that come from? So then that one is set aside as a laying hand and I won't breed her. So I've run into interesting things through the years. I've had out of the black job of the solid black Java, I had two white ones, solid white ones up here. I've had no models. I've had a couple of Auburns. But that was unusual. Their feathers were black, but had just a little bit of a red sheen to those, so I gave those to a friend for laying hands. So yes, as a breeder you have to always be aware and. Quickly to separate and, choose which ones to breed. Jeanette has been out several times now to help me go through the flock and choose which ones are best. But back to your point, Jeanette, about how long they live, I've had one, one or two lived to be 12 years old. And they were quite, they did, and they still lay an occasional egg. And I've had roosters as old as seven or eight. So they're really hardy breed.
Jeanette: 16:12
Yeah. They're really a great utility breed.
Jennifer: 16:16
The reason why I asked about the Yellow Feet is I was raising Cogens for a while, and it was hard to maintain that yellow skin with the black pigment always wanting to come in. Is that maybe a reason why the breeders are shying away from it, just for the difficulty?
Deborah: 16:34
I don't, I can't speak to that. I don't know. Jeanette, what do you think?
Jeanette: 16:39
I think it's it's just, it's a solid blackbird. And the trends that I've seen of people like color and they like something different. And it's really put into jeopardy a lot of these solid colored birds. The thing is, the blacks, when the sun hits them it is like a rainbow. It's just so beautiful to see these birds. In the sunlight and you can see some of that green sheen coming through on our webpage. It's just really stunning. And it's not a flat black, it's, it's got that iridescent green to it that's just spectacular, thick of Cayuga ducks, that just, yeah, beautiful. And I think really underrated. And and that may be one of the reasons why there, there are no hatcheries that. Offer Javas just because they're, busy selling rainbow layers and, real colored chickens and stuff that makes your eyes pop. But, there's something to be said for a solid black bird with the green sheen. They're just spectacular. One thing I want wanted to mention before it jumps outta my head. We're still on the lookout for old lines of Java and. We actually managed to find a lady out in I think it was South Dakota. The Mrs. Schuler who happened to fall under our radar when we were doing a census. And she had no idea. Javas were rare'cause her family had. Java since before World War ii, and they just always had them. And she was very kind enough to share some hatching eggs with us so that we could get the birds into some other hands. And it wasn't long after that we, hatched out the chicks and put them into other hands that I got a phone call from her one day and she said they're all gone. And she had a predator come in and killed all her chickens. Oh, how horrible. And it was awful. And but because we hatched a whole bunch here in North Carolina. We could go back to the people that we gave the chicks to and we actually were able to send eggs back to Mrs. Schuler. And Deb, maybe you can fill in some of the gaps.'cause you were trying to track down her chickens and I think you managed to find some more, didn't you?
Deborah: 19:10
No, that was a different line. This was a line I was trying to find the line of model Javas that were at the. College of Agriculture there in Pittsburgh? Oh, okay. Back years ago. Yeah. And'cause I love them. They were so big. And so the personality, those were the
Jeanette: 19:26
Schuler, those were the Schuler birds?
Deborah: 19:30
No, I was told it was Eileen Jensen. Oh gosh. Sorry. That is correct. That's okay. That's okay. So I talked to Hillary. Who was the firm manager at the time that I got them from the college, and she said they were from Eileen Jensen in the Midwest. So I found her and talked to her on the phone multiple times. We had hour long conversations. She's in her eighties. Her husband had passed away and she could no longer manage the flock, so she sold them to various neighbors and to ideal nursery. So that's where my, I went down the rabbit hole looking for them and found some I called all the neighbors. I called her to the hatcheries. She wasn't a hundred percent sure of the name of the hatchery, so I had to call multiple hatcheries and did get some, but they were not the same. They were not the same. And I was very unhappy with them. Yeah.
Jeanette: 20:32
And the latest census we did showed none of the hatcheries had them. So that block gone.
Deborah: 20:39
Yes. And then back to their sheen. I have to comment, I've read that the sheen of the green on the black feathers as emerald beetle green, like a June bug would have that shine. And I think it's very, it is very much like that. Their feathers are beautiful and the roosters, they're, they grow these very long tail feathers. At the top, that flutter in the wind. They're quite beautiful birds. So I think I have some posted maybe on my website. If not, I'll, my blog. If not, I'll post some of the most recent ones so you can see them. But they're just incredibly photogenic. They the pictures always turn out nice yeah.
Jennifer: 21:23
Okay. So if somebody wanted to get into them, who would they contact?
Jeanette: 21:30
I think reaching out to the Java group would be a good start. We do have an online breeders and products directory so you might be able to find breeders through that. But if there aren't any that are close to you on that directory, then I would definitely reach out to the Facebook group and, put a post. You're looking for'em in a certain area, and you might be lucky enough to find somebody that's that's working with them. I would say that the biggest thing is have patients, they're critically endangered. They're not easy to come by, and it may be that you try and make arrangements in the fall or the winter to try and get hatching eggs in the spring. I, I would suggest starting in the fall, yeah. Just to make sure that you got everything lined up. Because there is increasing interest, but they're still critically endangered, so very hard to come by. And if you really want them, just know you, you may have to travel to get'em, yes.
Jennifer: 22:34
Listening to you guys talk about'em, it sounds like there's maybe only a handful of lines in the whole United States.
Deborah: 22:43
I
Jeanette: 22:43
don't
Deborah: 22:43
know how many would know.
Jeanette: 22:46
Yeah. We haven't done a comprehensive census. Of bloodlines in a long time. We are taking on a new census in 2026. The conservancy is committed to doing a census of poultry every five years. And it's every five years because it's a bear of a project to try and get done.'Cause there are no registries and, you've got to work through networks of people to try and reach, the folks that you need to be. Reaching out to this upcoming census. We are actually developing a team of people within the a PA community. And what I'm trying to do is line up people that expertise in a certain class of chickens. Like I've got somebody that is a very active ao breeder. She does shemos and when you're reading within a certain class, you get to know who's got what and who's doing what. And I've got someone for the English class and a person for waterfowl and I'm continuing to look for people within the other classes. We can all tackle it together and hopefully get most comprehensive census that we will have to date. But again it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort, and I'm pleased to say the a PA let us officially form an a PA sanction committee for census. So they've put their backing behind the effort. And the important thing about census is it guides. Conservation efforts for the next five years and the census helps us to identify what breeds or what color varieties are in big trouble. And we try to bring awareness so that people that maybe they didn't know that black Java were. Becoming really rare. We've discovered in our last census that we've actually lost a bunch of color varieties within breeds just because no one's kept up with it. Yeah, we're looking forward to the census and we already have a sponsor for it. For folks that are out there and have breeding flocks, keep your eyes open for the set, the notification that the census is on, we'll probably launch it next February and it'll probably carry on for four to six months. And then and then we'll compile all the data and we usually publish it with a PA and on our website and anybody who will listen to us, we will talk about census numbers. Really important work coming up for poultry.
Jennifer: 25:33
That sounds good. Deborah, do you wanna tell us about your website and your blog and anything else you have going on?
Deborah: 25:42
The blog is sadly neglected, but it has been going on for about 10 years. So you can go back and read, some of the archival, pieces that I started in the beginning, which, and it goes, it's about the farm. So there's various things going on here. Java chickens are a big part of it. It's all part of sustainable living and preservation for me. The house that I live in and where we live is, was built in 1840, so it's on the national registry. So that's part of preserving architecture and history the livestock. Not all is in the conservancy but the Java chickens certainly are, but I also have angora goats just because I adore them. And I spin the wool. I spin the wool and make things out of that. So I have connections with, textile artists and that kind of thing. I have tours here. And I have events and things and always, I'm always talking about Java chickens. I'm always talking up Java chickens. And so people are always so interested. I think that's a critical piece. Again, I've mentioned before of raising awareness and talking about what wonderful homestead birds they are and how they're part of our history. So the blog is high ground farm.com. So you can see it there. It's through the years become a bit different, but people would be able to see chicks and so forth there. Okay. And of course there's a Facebook page for High Ground Farm, and then there's a personal page, Facebook page for Deborah Underwood Brown. And then there's Instagram of course, high ground farmer. But all of these are just chronicling the going zone here, but Java chickens certainly are a huge part of it. And do you sell eggs and birds? I do. I do. I, again, the ones that are not breed standard, I sell as laying just regular laying hands. And people are just honored to get them. And I think when they know the history and they know the numbers are. So rare. I think it makes them feel, quite honored to take care of them and they're stewards of the breed. So yes, I do and I sell hatching eggs and people are interested. I keep a running list of people that want them. And it's an ongoing thing to try to hang on to this beautiful breed. Awesome.
Jeanette: 27:59
Debra, you do have to mention your artwork. Debra's quite the artist and she's done some beautiful paintings.
Deborah: 28:07
Oh, thank you. I do I paint trees, a lot of trees, but I also paint Java chickens. So I have note cards of things like Java chickens decorating their Christmas trees. And and it takes some imagination because I had to go down to the barn and look at them and sketch their faces and so forth. But then I had to figure out what kind of a tree would a Java chicken have and what kind of decorations would they put on that tree? So that took some doing. But anyway, so their Christmas cards with Java chickens and there's Java chickens. I wrote a book actually, if I can find a way to publish the thing, a children's book, but, and all the watercolor paintings, of course, are original. I just paint the things I like and sometimes other people like them too.
Jennifer: 28:49
If we hang ornaments in the shape of chickens, then chickens would hang ornaments in the shape of people.
Deborah: 28:55
I don't know about that. They sometimes, I don't think they liked me at all but they did. I decided they would hang ornaments of food because, chickens are so food oriented, so they have, they did ornaments of little vegetables and little fruits. And things like that. That's what their ornaments ended up being. But maybe I should do little people. You're right. Maybe I should.
Jennifer: 29:18
That sounds awesome. It sounds like you have a nice little farm going on.
Deborah: 29:21
It's a, it is just a way of life. I've lived this way for 50 years. I just came out of the closet, just about 30 years ago.'cause I used to, I was in medicine and I would be in the middle of some big academic thing. And people would be talking about what they did the weekend, and how they went to the mall and they did this and that. And I'd say you won't believe it. I was able to spin and I would tell'em what I was spinning on the wheel and what I did on the farm, and they thought I was insane and they would just drift away from me. But about thir 20, maybe 20 years ago, I became really in. My sons were like, oh mom, this is so cool. Tell my, their friends would come over and they'd say, we can't believe you do this stuff. It was very hip, and so all of a sudden I can talk about it and I'm it's cool, but it didn't, used to be, it wasn't cool in the nineties, but it is a interesting way of life. But I've lived this way a very long time. So
Jennifer: 30:13
Do you eat your birds?
Deborah: 30:16
I, we do if I can help find, I can't process them myself. I have this, I just can't. So if I can get somebody else to do that for me, yes, absolutely. Yes, they make lovely, it makes a lovely broth. There is no broth like it to cook a chicken, very long. And I'm sorry. And it and and it that makes a kind of a gelatinous. Thick, gelatinous rich chicken broth. So it's great.
Jennifer: 30:43
Awesome. All right. I have thoroughly enjoyed this. Ladies. Thank you so much for being here.
Deborah: 30:51
I've enjoyed it too. I'm sorry that the camera didn't work, but but you might find a little picture of me somewhere on Facebook. I usually avoid the camera, so
Jennifer: 31:00
That's all right. We just post the audio anyway. Cool. Alright. Tell me and. Sure Jeanette will be back again.
Jeanette: 31:08
And for folks if they wanna learn more about Javas livestock conservancy.org we do have an extensive Java page and you can see one of Deborah's beautiful Java roosters there. And learn what we do about rare breeds.'cause the black job is one among almost 200 breeds that we work with.
Deborah: 31:28
Yes. And I must say this before we finish livestock Conservancy has been just a huge help for me. I found out when did it start in the seventies, Jeanette. I found out about it about seven,
Jeanette: 31:40
right after the bicentennial. Yes.
Deborah: 31:42
I found out about it in the late seventies and became a member. And just through the years, they have just been just a huge advocate and instrumental in me growing and learning about this. So I just urge people to. Check out that website and be a member so they can, be a part of it. It's critical, I think.
Jennifer: 32:03
All right, then I'm a member.
Deborah: 32:05
Cool.
Jennifer: 32:09
All right. Thank you ladies.
Deborah: 32:11
Thank you for asking me. Nice to see you, Jeanette.
Jeanette: 32:14
Good to meet you. If I could see you, but I can hear you.
Deborah: 32:17
I understand. No worries. Bye. Love you. Bye.
Jeanette: 32:21
Bye.