Indio Gigante Chicken
In this episode of the Poultry Nerds Podcast, we sit down with Whitney from Bissonnette Acres to talk about the Indio Gigante, a massive chicken breed developed in Brazil for meat production and now turning heads in the U.S. for its size, docility, and dinosaur-like appearance. Whitney shares her experience raising these birds, what makes them different from other large fowl like Brahmas or Ayam Cemani, and the importance of proper nutrition, exercise, and selective breeding to avoid leg issues like perna bamba.
We discuss the origin story of this “government chicken,” how to spot a quality Indio Gigante, and ongoing efforts to develop a U.S. breed standard. Whether you’re curious about their blue eggs, their predator-deterring size, or why they need low protein diets and lots of space—this episode delivers all the poultry nerdy details.
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ennifer: 0:23
Welcome poultry nerds. We are here with a, with with Whitney, who's going to tell us all about this chicken that I can't pronounce. It's Indio Gigante.
Carey: 0:36
Bless you.
Jennifer: 0:37
Say it again? Indio Gigante yeah. That tall chicken with the fat legs. Well, no, I wouldn't say the legs are very fat. Oh, it's not that there's one that's got really fat. Real fat.
Whitney: 0:53
Are
Jennifer: 0:53
you
Whitney: 0:53
talking, are you thinking about the dawn? Maybe are. Do you know what I'm talking about? Those big, really short? Muscular ones with the really thick legs.
Jennifer: 1:04
Maybe that's the one I'm thinking of.
Whitney: 1:05
Yeah. Um, no, but the Indio antes are tall.
Jennifer: 1:09
So you have bean pole chickens.
Whitney: 1:11
Yeah, you could say. So tall, muscular.
Jennifer: 1:15
How tall are they?
Whitney: 1:16
Okay, so they actually come from Brazil and they were created by the Brazilian government as an affordable protein meat source for the people. Uh, and not too long ago, actually, just in the 1980s. So they're pretty new. They're pretty new, but um. They created them by adding in a bunch of different Malloy type birds and crossing them to a higher like egg and meat production. Bird kind of rumor is Plymouth Rock and Rhode Island red. But again, there's not too much clarity on that on the internet. It's hard to get a straight answer on that one.
Carey: 1:56
That's'cause you got some of them government chickens.
Whitney: 1:58
Yeah. It's government chickens, right? Hush hush chickens. Alright, let's back
Jennifer: 2:01
up for just a minute. So tell everybody who you are.
Whitney: 2:04
Oh, I'm sorry. I, that's
Jennifer: 2:05
okay.
Whitney: 2:06
Do you wanna, do we wanna start this over again? People like the
Jennifer: 2:11
name, people like our, I mean, conversation.
Carey: 2:13
I feel like they should recognize her voice.
Jennifer: 2:16
Me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You, oh yeah. Your reels are famous,
Carey: 2:21
but they, they really are.
Jennifer: 2:22
Oh, but this way, I have no idea.
Whitney: 2:24
Seriously.
Jennifer: 2:25
This way everybody knows it's not ai and we really just are people having a conversation. That's my newest pet peeve. Where do you wanna start from? So we're here with Whitney. Whitney, introduce yourself. Hey,
Whitney: 2:40
it's Whitney from BizNet Acres. Uh, thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to chit chat.
Jennifer: 2:47
And you're, you're in
Whitney: 2:49
Arkansas? Yep, I'm in central Arkansas.
Jennifer: 2:52
Okay. And how long have you been raising this bird and what else do you have?
Whitney: 2:58
Okay, well, I've been raising Indios for about two years now, so they're very. Very new to me. Still, I'm still learning as much as I can. Um, my main breed that I work with is I am Chimani. Uh, I've been working with them for close to seven years. Then we have modeled Brahma and American white breasts, and we have some silkies that are just pets because yeah, I cannot get their breeding program off the ground to save my life, so that's okay. You know, it, it
Carey: 3:26
makes me so proud to hear another person say, I am samani correctly.
Whitney: 3:33
Oh, there's a lot of debate about that one. I've gotten a lot of flack on both sides. I mean, chii is technically the way that you would pronounce it in Indonesia. That's how they would pronounce the C as a ch. But I mean, if you really wanna get into it, there's not necessarily a right or wrong way to say it. Samani would be more so how we would read it and pronounce it. It's just. Whatever you're most comfortable with. I do flip flop sometimes, but I have worked really hard to stick with chimani, so
Carey: 4:06
I'm gonna say this. If it's your bird, you should be able to call it what you want to.
Whitney: 4:09
Yeah, or just call it ac, but worst case scenario, just say ac. You're good. Like some
Carey: 4:13
people get really hot and bothered about that.
Whitney: 4:15
No, I agree with that. I. I'm nervous talking about it. It's a touchy subject.
Jennifer: 4:23
Well, we, they can't talk back to us in a podcast form, so we can say whatever we want to at this point. Yeah,
Whitney: 4:30
but they can comment. No, I'm just kidding. I know,
Jennifer: 4:32
right? They'll email us later. Okay, so the Indigo Indio inde. Okay, so I've seen you measure them with your daughter, right. Uhhuh, you kind of lay'em out and spread'em out on the measuring tape.
Whitney: 4:49
Yeah. So they're known as the world's tallest chicken. Mm-hmm. Which is true, they are, but it's kind of, I don't know if it was like lost in translation or if it just ended up being. Like a way to hype them up, you know what I mean by saying tallest? Because technically they're measured based off their length, not necessarily their height. So when this breed was discovered to be so tall or so long, the Brazilians ended up measuring them from the very tip of their beak to the end of their middle toe. So they lay them out flat on the ground and they stretch them out as long as they can, and that's how they go based off of their measurement. As opposed to just standing flatfooted. Does that make sense?
5:37
Okay. Yeah. Because yeah,
Jennifer: 5:38
it does. And I'm, and I'm visualizing going out there and taking my big orpington and telling hard to lay down. It's like a bedroom hard part.
Carey: 5:47
Alright, Jennifer, so picture this. She has Nigerian dwarfs.
Jennifer: 5:52
Oh gosh.
Carey: 5:52
Okay. So her chickens are bigger than her goats.
Jennifer: 5:59
They are.
Carey: 6:00
Oh my
Jennifer: 6:00
gosh. Wow. I don't think JC would lay down willingly.
Whitney: 6:07
I mean, you'd be surprised. Like sometimes they just kind of give up. It's such a new experience that they're like, okay,
Jennifer: 6:17
so the one I saw you measuring, wasn't he like 38 ish inches? If memory serves,
Whitney: 6:24
um, I've measured quite a few, our largest stag right now, which they also refer to the males as stags. Um, he is just at 42 inches right now. His name's Enoch and we absolutely love him. He's fantastic. He is 14 months old right now. Um, and so far. Working with him. He's been the biggest one that we have produced, so I'm very happy with him. And we have a son coming up out of him that he's only, I believe, eight months right now, and he's almost a 40 inches. So I'm really excited because he could easily surpass his father if he continues to grow in the right direction. Yeah.
Jennifer: 7:04
So how big do the hens get? So, I mean, that's.
Whitney: 7:10
That's a tough one. That's, well, not necessarily, height in general is a tough one because it's kind of been kind of controversial right now. There's been like a huge. Uh, influx of new people getting excited about this breed. I've watched it come in weights because before I got this breed, I sat on the idea of it for like two years.'cause I saw them and I was like, oh my gosh, I want this. I'm a tall person. I'm almost six foot. My husband's tall. We're tall people. And I was like, yes, I want a giant chicken. Be like an average chicken. No. And so I sat on it and I told my husband about it and he was like, no, it's not happening. Um, and one day I just. Decided to just order some finally two years later, but so there's been these different waves and hits where they've kind of come into the limelight or the spotlight. And they've come again recently and the thing has been everyone's calling them four foot chickens and they don't actually reach four feet that often. Which is it kind of, in a way it's good because it's bringing recognition to the breed, but also not so much because then it sounds like a scam when someone actually does the research and find out. So. If you're going based off of the Brazilian SOP, because they do have one, their hands are about 33 to 34 inches on average, which is really not that much. And then their males, their males cap out at about 40 inches. Um,
Carey: 8:38
I mean that's, yeah, that's a three foot tall chicken.
Whitney: 8:41
But it's not four feet. Okay. These things matter.
Carey: 8:44
I'll give you that
Whitney: 8:46
look.
Carey: 8:46
But still, you know, for somebody that's kind of, yeah, inner city or don't have a lot of land and can't really have like a grape Pyrenees or something to protect their
Whitney: 8:59
little fuzzy
Carey: 9:00
chickens.
Whitney: 9:01
That's true.
Carey: 9:02
I mean, they could get that. Or people like Jennifer whose husband say, no, you're not getting an emu. That's. I mean, also one of my
Whitney: 9:13
reasons, also one of my reasons, that's a chicken.
Carey: 9:15
That's a chicken, not a emu. So
Whitney: 9:17
yeah, the tech, the technicality is there, not
Jennifer: 9:21
aite. Y'all two are tall and I'm like just a, like two inches over five feet. So you're talking about like shoulder high chickens here,
Carey: 9:32
Jennifer, just think of this. While you're sitting, you won't even have to get outta your gator to feed'em.
Whitney: 9:39
Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Like you
Carey: 9:41
can just be sitting in your gator and hold some food out in your hand and boom, they're perfect.
Whitney: 9:47
Perfect height too. And that's great for practicing. Good posture and form. Yep. I think you should do it.
Jennifer: 9:52
Oh my goodness. So what do you, what do you really do with these birds though? Are you eating them?
Whitney: 10:00
Oh, I'm just loving them, eating them. No, why would I do that? That's
Jennifer: 10:05
terrible. No, I mean, that was their purpose, right? Was for me.
Whitney: 10:09
Okay. So they were created by the Brazilian government in the early eighties at some point, which that's like I mentioned before, it's just so hard to get clear information on foreign breeds sometimes. Mm-hmm. I mean, through all the translations waiting through articles. Sometimes information seems to be conflicting, but eighties or nineties, and they were created by crossing Malloy type breeds, like, um, Shammo, Malay Aze to a heavier, fuller bird. And so their goal for that was to provide the people of Brazil with affordable food because at that point their people were not being. They weren't, they didn't have access to good protein. They were starving, essentially. So they wanted to try to rectify that crisis at the time. And so these were, yeah, Brazil's
Carey: 10:57
always really struggled with that.
Whitney: 10:58
They are. They are. And they did help. They really did. And they were able to give more meat source and also a higher egg production'cause they can be. Uh, and again, even their SOP is kind of off when you look at the egg production that they state for them, it's between 160 eggs and 250 a year. That's so wide, right? Yeah. Yeah. But I think that has a lot to do with the fact that they're such a newer created breed that. It's still like they haven't streamlined that exactly. But anyway, so they got them to the public. They were able to feed the public, and these birds reproduce so much and people were breeding them because the hens are broody and they're strong birds. And then they realized how tall they were and how long they were, and they flipped the script from being a meat and food bird to a competitively bred bird for height. So, I mean, you'll find over there, there are some people who still eat them, the coals, right? But those stags and those females who are really big, they actually go more towards competitive breeding. I mean, it's huge over there for breeding these guys and trying to get them bigger and bigger. Um, over here you can eat them, but honestly, I'd get more off my breasts. I'd get more off my breasts. It'd be more worth my time to process my breasts than eat some of my ig.
Carey: 12:19
Because their bodies are about like a game fo, right?
Whitney: 12:22
They are. I imagine if I were to process an ig, it, it would need to be a crock pot bird, like aew bird. It just, I feel like they're so muscular and so tough. You wouldn't, it wouldn't be like, extremely delicious, if that makes sense. I mean, they,
Carey: 12:41
they have their purpose.
Whitney: 12:42
I mean, they have their purpose. Um, they're great for predator protection. Um, they've been really good at running off hawks. They're giant, they're huge, so you don't get a lot of aerial predators that want to come into your property when you have a flock of miniature dinosaurs in your backyard. But
Jennifer: 13:00
are they fully feathered, like, like from their head all the way down to their hawks? Or is there neck bear? So
Whitney: 13:09
actually that's interesting. I've gotten a lot of comments on some of my videos about, I have birds that have Enoch, our largest male. He has some feathers missing in his neck and on his keel bone and um. Some on his behind. And I get a lot of comments all the time. People saying, your birds sick. You need to take care of your birds. You need to treat your birds for mites. I'm like, God, trust, trust me, he's good. Um, but reviewing the in or the Brazilian, SOP again today, it popped out to me that on their chest it actually call calls. For their chest to be devoid of feathers, specifically on the keel bone and sometimes on the neck. Mm-hmm. This is just a part of the bird because it was bred over with a meat bird and because they do grow so fast, you notice that the same thing as like, you know, Cornish, you see that often where they just don't have the feathering there and the skin is really red. It's not raw. It's just, I don't know exactly how would you explain that? I'm sure you, you don't have feather.
Carey: 14:11
All right, so I'm looking at a video right here, and I'm gonna try to describe this for our viewers. So picture a T-Rex, a Game Foul, and a Cornish Cross all together.
Whitney: 14:58
Yeah, that's about right.
Carey: 14:59
Um, I will say though, their, their feathering is a little prettier than a Cornish cross. That might be the T-Rex in them or the gamefowl, I don't know. There's also
Whitney: 15:12
a long neck in there. Look how long their necks are.
Carey: 15:14
Look, they're, I mean, the neck could be almost a foot of the length on the things.
Whitney: 15:21
Yes. And that's, that's a goal as well. That's a goal as well. A focus with the brain is to have those long, slender necks, and a lot of people in Brazil prefer that because the longer the neck, the more inches, the more length that you get on the bird.
Jennifer: 15:37
But so sparse feathering would make sense if they're being bred for meat originally. Originally, yeah. It makes it easier to pluck
Whitney: 15:44
and that is why you will find that their diet Carey needs are very important because they have the ability to pack on the pounds so fast like a meat bird. You have to keep them on lower protein and you have to let them do, uh, exercise as much as possible because if they start to eat a higher protein protein. And they do not get nearly as much exercise. And I tell people all the time, if you want this breed, they cannot just live in a run. They cannot just live in a coop. Like you need to give them ample area to roam and to move because as soon as they start packing on that pound, they can face a really serious leg problem in Brazil, known as Perma Bamba. Bamba and what this is, I, I don't even know exactly what this is, I'm not sure anyone really knows exactly what this is, but essentially that their, their legs just give out. It's like a lame horse one day. They just can't give up. It's not Mars, it's not a disease. It's really because the bird has been bred. On two different aspects. Like you're breeding these birds for these long, limber lean legs and neck, but then their body still has that capability of being so heavy and the two kind of collide and crash. And then, so a lot of breeders recommend using. Calcium, treating them with more calcium once they hit the ground, lower the protein exercise, give them calcium to strengthen that bone health. Um, and this does help to an extent, but me personally, I worked really hard last generation not to treat a lot of birds with added calcium. And that may sound cruel, but I wanted birds who were gonna be strong. I wanted birds who weren't going to rely. On additional supplements because when shit hits the fan and I do need to eat my ig, I'm not gonna have calcium for them. No, that's,
Carey: 17:39
Hey look, breeding, breeding for hybrid vigor is not something you're gonna get an objection to from either one of us.
Whitney: 17:47
Hey, listen, it was, it was brutal. It was brutal, especially for the males because it seems the larger, the male you get, the greater your chances are for seeing that issue, which I mean, of course, but another thing I noticed too is like paying attention to legs, knock knees out. You're obviously, definitely gonna have a problem with per and Bamba tail set. If your tail set is way too low, you're gonna have a problem with that because it affects the hips, it affects the legs, the joints, everything. Um, and also. Exercise is such an important key. I think too many people in this breed, I've heard, I mentioned to some people before they're asking me what I was doing and I was like, well, I free range my birds. And they're like, you free range your birds. They cost me$70 a chick. And I was like, oh yeah, me too. But like. They need it, like they deserve to live and to be healthy and letting them have that, you know, access to not only exercise muscle development, bone health, but also all the nutrients that they can get in the ground from forging bugs, everything. I mean, that alone making that switch, I, you will see such a difference in the healthier birds, in my opinion. Um, especially your ig. So,
Carey: 19:00
well, like, like for me it is, it is really hard for me to free range a smaller bird, like a Rhode Island red or a game F because I humanely capture 30 to 40 raccoons.
19:18
Yeah.
Carey: 19:19
Every couple of months when the seasons change, but.
Whitney: 19:23
A larger bird. You probably could.
Carey: 19:25
I think these, I, I mean, I, I don't see a raccoon trying to take'em of these out.
Whitney: 19:31
No. The the thing
Carey: 19:32
down at it and be like, what are you doing? Yeah, you're gonna be my dinner.
Whitney: 19:37
Yeah, and so I have another way of utilize these guys is that they are such a docile breed, like my, I add not only with humans, but with like other chicken breeds, especially if you rear'em up with them. I can free range my grow out pin much longer. I free so. I free range my grow outs daily until they start showing signs of maturity, and that's when I kind of lock'em down and I start to evaluate who I wanna keep, who I wanna let go, where they're going. But because I have these ig, if I grow them out with my grow outs, they're so much larger than everyone else that they're almost like a built-in babysitter. And I have noticed that the other guys. Listen to them and watch them and that the IG end up calling the shot. And it's just very interesting to see how they all work together, how if there's any kind of threat or any kind of sign, you know what I'm saying? It's just, it's been, it's been very beneficial to have them with the grot. So I try to always have. Some IG growing out, and I have one male, him, uh, Enoch son who's coming up. He still hasn't even started to crow, so he still free ranges every day and all the grow outs stay with him. And he's like, what? Like almost 40 inches. So, I mean, it's been, it's worked. It's worked for us. So what
Jennifer: 20:48
age do they reach maturity?
Whitney: 20:51
Well, I mean it's, I think it's gonna vary because if you're looking at. The Brazilian SOP, again, I mean they say six months for H, seven months for males. But I just see, I see differences here. I think our birds in the states are a little bit different than what you'll see in Brazil. Personally, I find that they have a later maturity, uh, date. Um, I feel like my hins really don't start laying until seven or eight months. A lot like Brahma. I noticed my bras take a really long time to mature, and that makes sense to me. You would expect that being a larger bird, generally the larger breeds mature at a much slower rate.
21:32
Mm-hmm.
Whitney: 21:33
Um, and then also, you know, same goes for heights In Brazil, they have their males 39 to 40 inches and they have their females 33 to 34. I mean, that's where their standard rest, they say you need to at least get there. Right. But in the US we are starting to see breeders. Get birds reaching 42 inches and above. There is one breeder, uh, Igor Sores who's out in Georgia, and he recently saw a stag that reached close to 48 inches. He actually almost made that four foot claim, which is phenomenal. But, so it's just, it's interesting. I think it's still such a new breed with so many different breeds behind it. That it needs more time to, for us to really narrow down its definition. Mm-hmm. If that makes sense.
Jennifer: 22:27
Well, it would make sense if Brazil is growing them for another source of protein, then they're not gonna have the nutrition to feed the birds that we would hear.
Whitney: 22:37
Yeah. And that's true. But on the other side, Brazil actually has a formulated feed just for them. Serious. Yeah. For the serious breeders. But again, I have not been able to get my hands on what's actually in that formulated feed. Uh,
Jennifer: 22:52
I
Whitney: 22:52
would like talk
Jennifer: 22:53
to that guy. I bet he could figure it out.
Whitney: 22:55
I wanna try. Yeah, he probably could. Huh? Um, I wanna, I've been trying to figure out how to get my hands on, like, at least like a list of what's in it to see. Um, I know that's balanced for calcium, lower protein, but that's about it. That's all I know at this point. Do you
Carey: 23:09
know what it's called?
Whitney: 23:10
Uh, I would have to look it up. I. I
Carey: 23:15
you give that and I'll sit, we can come up with, we might be able to work out a trade.
Whitney: 23:21
Ooh, okay. I'd be happy to, but yeah.
Jennifer: 23:25
I mean, what kind of wing span, like can they get themselves up off the ground at all?
Whitney: 23:30
Oh no, barely. Well, no, I lie. The males maybe not so much, but they do have one female that like, no matter how much I block this little like wooden bar that's in the top tippy corner of her run, she still gets to it every night and she roost on it, which I'm surprised'cause it's about five feet. So she gets up there pretty dang good. Uh, males, I have not seen them get up pretty good at all. She's
Jennifer: 23:53
doing chin up.
Whitney: 23:55
I mean,
Carey: 23:55
they're already 43 feet, three and a half feet up.
Whitney: 24:00
You're right, you're right, you're right. Well, you
Carey: 24:01
know, Mo, most breeders talk about putting their. Um, roost like two feet up so their birds don't hurt their legs when they pop down. So, I mean, they're already there.
Whitney: 24:13
They're already there. But that is true too. Another thing that is really recommended because their legs, you know, once a leg goes out or gets injured because these guys are so big, you're just kind of done for it. Yeah, that's, that's the
Carey: 24:24
chicken leg right there.
Whitney: 24:25
Yep. Lowered roosting bars are definitely recommended. I just do, I do cinder blocks. I do a big two by four through them. I stack two cinder blocks and I keep it as low as I can, and they really don't, for the most part, try to go that high except for, you know, my younger juveniles, they will, they'll push themselves, but it's like once they start getting bigger and start getting like more of that weight on them, I don't think that they can, like they're heavy. They are heavy. And that's another thing too in Brazil on their standard. Again, it's saying like 10 to 12 pounds for males and six to nine pounds for females. That is not what I'm seeing here. I need to weigh my guys. I need to get a scale big enough for my guys, but they're heavy. They are. They've got some weight to them and I know. Again, another breeder said that he had a female that clocked in at like 14 pounds, which I totally believe because while they may look tall and skinny, that little girth, like they're little abdomen and stuff, it is packed. It is just like so muscular, so heavy. It's surprising when you pick them up.
Jennifer: 25:29
So. So I just have this envisionment of your farm. So people are always asking for those giant brams and they see that picture of that braa that comes out of that dog house, that everybody plays it all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. The big white one. You've got this big giant bra, then you got this big IG coming out at you, and then in front of it, you get your little silky going. She has a little
Whitney: 25:58
tiny silky, right. And you know what? They all hang. They all hang just fine. Um, I mean, well, I mean this, the
Carey: 26:09
silky has a shadow.
Whitney: 26:11
Yeah.
Carey: 26:11
So you know it's always in the shade.
Whitney: 26:13
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's always shaded. I mean, when I'm on my off season, I free range everyone for the most part together. I can free range the bras and the IG and the silkies and all of the grouts. I can free range them all together and there's no problem. Everyone hangs out like. But I also don't keep birds around that are aggressive. That's like my number one thing. Any sign of it, it's gone Just'cause my children and just because I like peace. Mm-hmm. So do you eat your Kohls? Um, on occasion, but not very often. I do have a homestead here that I actually started working with, uh, because I am Chi and she's completely off grid and I ran into her one day at the Dollar General down the street. And we got to talking and she was completely off grid. And I was telling her I had chickens and I had these coals, and if you want, you can just take them. And so that's been like. Ooh, five years now going on that she just takes everything, anything that I don't want, anything that doesn't meet the cut, they go there. I know that they're not gonna be bred further, and I know that they're gonna literally put food on her family's table. Um, and that just has worked out really good for me, knowing that they'll either be kept for egg production or they'll feed her family at the time that it needs to be done.
27:29
Mm-hmm.
Whitney: 27:29
It's worked out great. But yeah, no, I also. Get the heebie-jeebies eating my own Kohls. Why just edit that one out.
Carey: 27:42
But like, I mean, don't tell anyone
Whitney: 27:43
that it
Carey: 27:44
tastes like chicken.
Whitney: 27:45
I, no, I don't know why. Okay. Because I love them still.
Jennifer: 27:53
You know, I'm just gonna say this. Once their head is off, you can't tell'em
Whitney: 27:57
apart. No, that's true. That's true. That's true. That's
Jennifer: 28:00
true. That's true. Been there been? Yep. Yep. Okay. Wow. Well, are, are, is anybody in the states working on an SOP for these birds? Yeah, so no
Whitney: 28:15
one really right now that I know of, but, uh, I actually have been in the conversation with a few breeders. Mm-hmm. Uh, Igor Sores and, uh, blue Azo. And, um, he has. Some really nice indios as well. And, uh, we actually have been talking a lot about trying to start getting a proposed standard out there for them, uh, in the states because we're seeing a lot of diversity right now in these birds. Um, GFF started to release them first, and. Unfortunately just with like them being so mass produced in the US and sent out everywhere. It just seems like there's a lot of discrepancy in the bird's types, like in height, size, shape. You get some that look way more zeal like they're just full zeal, and you get some that are heavy. You get some that have no neck. You get some that are only reaching like 36 inches. That's about the majority that you'll see in the United States. Here you'll see a lot of people working with other lines that are not getting nearly as tall as they should be. And then also on top of that, waddles, waddles are not a part of the breed. They should have a doula. If they're gonna have waddles, they need to only be one centimeter at most. They need to have yellow legs. They, the colors like Sama though, where it does not matter. That's one thing that I really like about them after working with so for so long, is that there's some diversity in color. It's basically whatever you get, you get, which is, that's fine for me. It's better than just black. Uh. But the problem here, which is what we saw with Ani as well, is that there's just no rules. Does that, I don't know how to put this nicely. Mm-hmm. I'm trying not to step on anyone's toes. Right. Um. There's no, there's no guideline. It's a free for all. It's like the wild west. When you get a new burden, that's a rare exotic bird. People are gonna pump'em out. They're gonna try to make as much money as they can off of them. They are not gonna pay any respect to any kind of structure type or SOP. And that's something we saw a lot with ac and now that we're getting closer to having our, you know. Proposed standard accepted going into our final qualifying meet this November, which is amazing. More people are falling in line. More people are trying to breed correctly, are trying to do the breed justice because they're going to be held accountable when you have an actual SOP in the standard. And even though IG have only been here, I don't know, maybe five years, maybe six, they're already just getting so completely watered down just from like the fad of just like trying to pump out these four foot birds that aren't even getting close to four foot at this point. So a lot of us have been talking about trying to really go through and clean up the Brazilian. SOP kind of pay homage to it, but also try to clarify certain aspects. Like for example, in their SOP, they don't even have a tail set angle. Um, and there's a lot of things that are just kind of not very clear, not like we would see in our SOPs here in states. So we do wanna try to work on that. But again, it is such a long process. You have to, you know, create your SOP, get that. Into the a PA, get it approved, start working on it and be able to prove that you have five a PA breeders breeding to this SOP for five years. And then on top of that, you're gonna have to go through your additional two years of qualifying. I mean, it's not gonna be just five years. It would be a lot more than that. I mean, the work that is ahead of us. But at that point, like there's no time, like the present time. Right? Start now. Sorry.
Jennifer: 32:01
So if somebody said, you know what, I need some giant, you know, eye level bge, um, so what would be, where could they get some, and then what would they look at just as the bare minimum to know that that's what they were getting? You know, like leg is leg color at all. Yeah. So
Whitney: 32:26
leg color, yellow. Okay. You would see yellow in the legs. It's, uh, do they have a, I would recommend not going to a large hatchery. First of all, that would be my first step is do not go to a very large hatchery, not one that's commercialized. Uh, because when you go to commercialized hatcheries, you tend to see that the actual breeding is sometimes lost. Um, but I would go and I would recommend finding a group on Facebook. Uh, for example, there's a group that's called Raising Indio Antes in the US that is probably the largest IG group for the us. Um, granted you're gonna have breeders of all. Backgrounds there of all, you know, um, either brand new to the breed flippers, actual breeders, preservationists, all the things. But go in there, start learning, start watching, start reading through the comments of posts. Not just posts. Read the comments. Get to know the people. Get to know the breeders, and find yourself someone to build a relationship with. Get to know them before you purchase from them, because I mean. Purchasing chicks. You can't really tell the quality of a bird until they're at least close to maturity. Uh, but you are some. Definite things you're gonna look for is leg color, yellow. You definitely wanna make sure you get straight toes. That is a huge issue in this breed as well, that a lot of people will, um, just pass by, is crooked toes. Always make sure the toes are straight. Always make sure you're giving proper vitamins because that too will cause crooked toes. Um, you're gonna wanna look for Waddles. Avoid waddles if you're gonna have'em. They should be one cm at most. You're gonna want a doula. That's preferable. Doula is a big piece of skin going from like the bottom of the beak to the neck. Uh, for those who don't know, kinda like a Turkey. Like a Turkey. Yeah, kinda like a Turkey. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good example. Um, and. A very strong, prominent crown and almost that braa snarl to the face and in the eyes. Do you know what I'm talking about, that angry brow that Brahmas have? Beetle brow? Yes. You want that? You want almost that angry look to the bird. Um,
Jennifer: 34:44
yeah. We need a big, giant chicken coming at us. That angry with an
Whitney: 34:47
angry look. But the funny thing is they're not angry. They're very, very sweet. But I mean, if you're, yeah, if you're wanting to go buy, then my best recommendation would be to find someone through Facebook or for through social media. Avoid a large hatchery if you can, and try to build a rapport and a relationship with someone. If you're serious about this, if you really, truly want pure, good Indio antes, go find a breeder, build a relationship. But if you just want something. Yard, lawn ornament, yard candy. Mm-hmm. I, I mean, again, you could go to a breeder as well because they're always gonna have their Kohls. Yeah. Their pet qualities. You know what color eggs do they lay? Well, they can lay between white and cream. There have been, I know there's some that are like more tan and I have read in the Brazilian SOP, that red is a color. I'm not exactly sure what that color is, but also blue and green, and we do have a couple of lines here in the United States that were able to bring in that blue and green jean. I have a hin that lays blue eggs and I am building a freaking army out of her. I have hatch so many babies. And next I'm going to be working on doing the Blue Egg gene through, um. I think I'm gonna go through Knight's Poultry lab testing. And so I'm gonna test and try to find out who's carrying it and how to breed back and try to hopefully have an entire colored egg basket through this hen, which, um, not only does she lay beautiful, gorgeous, huge blue eggs, but she's just, she's massive. I mean, her offspring are just, oh my gosh, they're tanks. Uh, and she's very docile and very sweet. But that is something that a lot of people don't know is that they actually can lay colored eggs, which is. A game changer in my opinion. Uh, when I found out, I was like, take all my money. I just need one. I just need one and I'll make it work.
Jennifer: 36:42
You've kind of like stumped me on that one, that there could be such a, a variety of egg color there.
Whitney: 36:50
And again, I think that's coming from the fact that it is, and I don't wanna say it in a rude way, but it's kind of a mutt bird. I mean, it was just created in the 1980s. You're still gonna have so many different genetics at play. So many different things. I mean, yeah, because we, yeah. Somebody,
Carey: 37:08
somebody's gonna have to work with'em, clean'em up, get'em, right. That's what I'm saying. And then they're gonna have to line breed'em for at least five or six years mm-hmm. To get that to where it's consistent.
Whitney: 37:20
Exactly. Carrie, and I think that's what I was trying to explain when I was talking about setting up an SOP. Mm-hmm. Is that like mm-hmm. It's gonna take like maybe 10 years, like to get this bird to actually be able to like fit a solid SOP because there's so many different things that you can see. For example, they have like five different accepted comb varieties, so we gotta narrow it down. Right? Wow. You know, I'm just saying. So, so many different things can pop up in them because really the main true focus. From my understanding in Brazil for this breed has been length, length, height. Go for it. That's what they've been breeding for. Uh, long neck, long legs, and as long of a bird as you can get. So now with the opportunity that we have with them here and with the dedicated breeders that we have, we do have that opportunity to really try to start. I don't wanna necessarily say molding the breed because you don't want to offend the country of origin at all. Right? Because we appreciate what they did, we appreciate what they created. But I do think like we have this opportunity to try to refine, to try to narrow down, to find those best qualities that will help preserve the breed and keep it going and to breed more consistently.
Jennifer: 38:42
Yeah, I can see where, on the flip side, if you don't. Then there's so much variety there that it will just forever be. Um. A backyard mix almost.
Whitney: 38:54
I mean, yeah, no, I could definitely see that as well. 100%. I mean, don't get me wrong, there is consistency to it. Mm-hmm. But because there's so many different genetics at play and it's so fairly new, you're still gonna see like these random grandfather genes pop up. You're still gonna see these things come out. Um. Like the comb, ugh, the combs killing me. I'm trying so hard just to have cushion combs. That's all I want.
Jennifer: 39:17
I mean, yeah. I mean, if you're talking about the 1980s, we're only talking about 40 ish generations here. That's not that long. Yeah. That's not that long at all. Mm-hmm. No,
Whitney: 39:27
but you know, it'd be fun to be the one of the first ones. Yeah. You know, to get it going. And really, they have so much potential. They are such an amazing breed. So docile, so calm, so big. Beautiful. They really. Make you see. Okay. Yeah. They could be dinosaurs. I see it. I definitely see it now. You know.
Jennifer: 39:48
Well, do you, or you're not selling anything yet, right?
Whitney: 39:52
No, I have been selling. Okay. Right now I'm, it's too hot. It's too hot right now. Um, unless we can get on a private transport. But I am also hoarding because again, I've got all those babies outta my blue hen, so I am trying to grow them out, find my best selections, and then reevaluate what my next generation's gonna look like. And then of course, hatch those, evaluate those, and then start letting some go. But yeah,
Jennifer: 40:19
tell everybody where they can find you and all the different places.
Whitney: 40:23
Nope. Uh, Binet Acres on Facebook is about the best place to find me or on TikTok. You'll find me under Whitney Rose Binette and I try to produce as much educational and basic understanding content as I can to help all those who are just getting into some of the breeds that I have to try to share my. Journey and my experience, what I've learned going through it all, I don't know it all. I am still learning. We are all still learning, but I just try to share what I come across to hopefully help others' journeys be a little bit easier. Mm-hmm.
Jennifer: 40:56
Well, we totally appreciate it and your, you reels are so fun. So I enjoy watching'em. Thank you. Thank you so much. Well, we have enjoyed having you. We'll talk to you soon. Yes. Okay. Thank you so much. This has been really cool. Thank you so much for
Whitney: 41:10
having me. Hope I didn't yak your ear off too much. Nope, you're good.
