Master Exhibitor Tyrel Thurston Talks Saxony Ducks
n this episode of the Poultry Nerds Podcast, we welcome a passionate and knowledgeable guest — Tyrel Thurston — for his first-ever podcast appearance! Based in Montana and soon relocating to Wisconsin, Tyrel is a Master Exhibitor with the APA and ABA, known for his dedication to quality waterfowl and poultry breeding.
We dive deep into:
The Saxony duck breed — history, temperament, egg production, and show potential
What makes Saxony ducks the quadruple threat: egg layers, meat birds, beautiful for exhibition, and pet-worthy personalities
Tyrell's thoughts on line breeding, outcrossing, and how he’s increasing size and quality in his flock
Incubation tips and hatch rates (including a 204/209 duckling hatch rate success!)
His waterfowl breeding projects, including Black East Indies, Welsh Harlequins, and Gray Rowans
How he balances full-time concrete work, poultry breeding, and national shows
Tyrell shares stories from the road, earning exhibitor awards, and practical advice on raising ducks successfully — whether you’re breeding for show, utility, or backyard pets.
💬 Interested in Saxony ducks or want to connect with Tyrell? Reach out to him on Facebook.
👉 Subscribe and hit the 🔔 for more in-depth poultry episodes with breeders, experts, and true poultry nerds.
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Jennifer: 0:00
Exciting guest for you today. This is his first podcast, so welcome Tyrell Thurston. How are you?
Tyrell: 0:10
I'm good. Glad to be here.
Jennifer: 0:12
Did I say it right? Tyrell Thurston, yes.
Tyrell: 0:14
Thurston. Yep.
Jennifer: 0:15
All right. So tell us a bit about yourself. Where you are, what you raise, all the goodies.
Tyrell: 0:21
Oh, gosh. So I'm currently in. Central Montana living in Great Falls which I will only be here for a little bit longer. I am relocating soon.
Jennifer: 0:34
Too cold up there?
Tyrell: 0:36
No, I'm just relocating to cold. Headed east to Wisconsin here in a few months. But gosh, I raise all sorts of stuff. I used to raise just backyard stuff and was reading some stuff on hold to Reed's website and he had said something about it costs the same amount of money to raise a poor quality bird as it does good quality bird. So I got rid of all of my hatchery stuff and invested in exhibition quality stuff Started with Black East Indies and it's gone from there. And now I raise Black East Indies, Walsh Harlequins, Keas, Saxony Gray Rowans. And that's brown Africans. Working on another little Stein Barker project for geese. That's on the waterfowl side. On the chicken side, I've got partridge and white wine up bans. I've got rose comb and single comb kins. I just acquired this last fall, some black Sumatra bantams and got started in those, just started in large foul buffingtons. So I've got quite an array of projects.
Jennifer: 1:47
Do you do poultry full-time?
Tyrell: 1:50
Time? No. So on top of poultry. I for the last year I've been doing concrete for four years, which up here is seasonal just because it gets cold and you can't do concrete in the cold. And then I've also been in restaurant for 10 years. So I also, him and assistant manager at a local restaurant. So I've been doing both. So I alarm goes off at about five 30 in the morning, do concrete till the mid-afternoon. I get about an hour and a half between jobs, which I go as quickly through chores as I can. And then I'm at the restaurant till 11, 11 30 at night, I come home, go to bed, and do it all over again. But it's gotten to be too much. So I'm stepping down from the position at the restaurant and just go concrete full-time, which will give me my evenings and weekends back so I don't have to work seven days a week and I can spend more time with the birds.
Jennifer: 2:46
Are you taking all of the birds with you when you move?
Tyrell: 2:49
I hatched way too many. I think I hatched about 550 waterfowl this year. I'm shooting for way less than that, just'cause I don't want move all that. But yeah everything will go with me.
Carey: 3:04
Wow. We don't
Tyrell: 3:06
judge for people hatching out tons of birds. No, that'll be next year once I get resettled.
Jennifer: 3:12
Wow. Is where you're going, already has the coops and everything ready so you can just pick up and move the birds and put'em back down.
Tyrell: 3:19
There's some buildings and stuff there, and I've got a bunch of chain link panels that I can throw up and make some pens quick. So we'll make it work.
Jennifer: 3:29
Because moving is stressful and then trying to move all those different birds. Wow. I don't envy you this summer.
Tyrell: 3:37
my plan is find a, get ahold of a stock trailer and load'em all in a stock trailer and away we go.
Jennifer: 3:44
Sometimes you just gotta do it right. So I saw on Facebook that you had some really exciting mail not too long ago from the American Bantam Association.
Tyrell: 3:55
Batam Association. I got my master exhibitor from them. So
Jennifer: 4:01
you got more awards that I didn't know about. You're getting'em all confused.
Tyrell: 4:06
When you said mail just yesterday, the IWBA sent out their yearly newsletter with the end of year points awards. And I won a few things there. So I didn't know if that's what you had just seen and were referencing, but in the a BA I did, I got my grand or my master exhibitor there. In the a PA I actually have my master exhibitor and my grand master exhibitor in Black East Indies that I got last year.
Jennifer: 4:36
Congratulations.
Tyrell: 4:38
Thank you. What does it take
Jennifer: 4:39
to get that.
Tyrell: 4:41
In the PA or a BA?
Jennifer: 4:43
Let's just do both.
Tyrell: 4:44
Do both. to get your master exhibitor, you have to have a cumulative 200 points combined over whatever you've shown and raised. You have to have 300 points. And then when you have. 200 points in a specific breed, then you get your grand master exhibitor. It's essentially the equivalent to the master breeder. What the A BA does with the A BA, I always get'em mixed up. I have to think before I say the A, b, A 20 starred winds. and it can be cumulative over multiple breeds. You get your master exhibitor. And then once you have 20 starred winds in a specific breed, then you get your master breeder.
Jennifer: 5:31
Is it a certain time limit?
Tyrell: 5:34
There's no time limit. I think in the a ba there's a minimum five year enrollment before you can achieve it. But I think that might be for master breeder. Don't quote me on that. I'd have to look at that again. in my brain, there's something that's remembering a minimum five year.
Jennifer: 5:56
I'm not quoting you on any of it. I just think it's awesome that you spend that much time on the road showing these birds.
Tyrell: 6:03
Oh Lord, if I put some miles on, that's for sure. other than the show that we host here locally, which is about 300 birds, the next closest show for me is Utah, which is about seven hours. And then I go out to Washington, to Monroe, Washington. That shows 10 hours. Drive roughly. And then my next closest show would be Hutchinson, Minnesota that I've gone to is 14 hours. Portage Wisconsin's, 18 hours. If I go down, like last year I went down to Shawnee, Oklahoma for nationals, and that was 22 hours. So yeah, when I go to a show, it's not a short trip.
Jennifer: 6:42
You'll have a lot more close to once you move.
Tyrell: 6:46
Oh, I am so excited about that. The Portage Wisconsin show is gonna be about 45 minutes away. Yeah, there's several shows that are gonna be within a few hours, and then the big shows like Ohio and even going down south, they're only 14 to 16 hours, which for me is nothing right now. And it actually, it'll open some of those East Coast shows up for me too. Like I'll actually get to go to Congress and the Bath, New York show and some of those other bigger waterfowl shows. So I'm pretty excited about it. Good.
Jennifer: 7:20
Good. All right, so today we're gonna talk about Saxony Ducks. So I had to do some reading on them'cause I just wasn't familiar with them. And they're a nice, big, heavy breed, right?
Tyrell: 7:37
Yeah. they're a wonderful breed and I've only been raising them for a couple years. I have a good friend of mine that's been helping me with'em and mentoring me with'em.'cause it's something that, it's a breed he's passionate about as well. And so he's let me run wild with'em. And yeah, they're a big breed. They're in the heavy duck class. Your old Drakes standard calls for nine pounds. Young Drakes are eight, and then your old ducks are eight pounds. Your young ducks are seven. But to my knowledge and stuff that I've heard, there was a lot of discrepancy on whether they should be medium duck or heavy duck, just because They don't look as big as some of the heavy breeds, like the in and the Rowan, because they're a tighter, they're not as loose feathered. And so I think, I'd have to look at my standard again for the exact wording, but side by side, they're supposed to appear smaller than a Pekin or a Rowan. But when you grab a hold of'em they've definitely got some substance to'em.
Jennifer: 9:03
What drew you to them that makes you like'em so much?
Tyrell: 9:08
Have you ever seen a Saxony? They are in my opinion, they're neat looking. They're beautiful. People are might get on me'cause I might use some of the wrong color terminology, but they're almo, the females are almost like a butter scotch color. With the white eye stripes and the white throat, and then your Drakes have that almost like steel gray, that they're, they have a blue jean is what gives'em the color. But the males have that gray head and they've got a lighter colored body with some of the claret and stuff up around their shoulders.
Carey: 9:43
Yeah I like the, I think the head on the DR are nice. that gray color. It's different.
Tyrell: 9:50
Yeah. It's I know we all say gray in the poultry world. It's a blue, but Yeah. Yeah. It's, if it's easier just to say gray. In fact, I think the standard calls it a soft powder blue, gray.
Jennifer: 10:05
How long have they been in the standard?
Tyrell: 10:08
Oh gosh, I don't remember exactly when, but I will tell you, I actually have my standard sitting right next to me. They were admitted into the standard in 2000.
Jennifer: 10:19
Yeah, I didn't think it had been very long. Really?
Tyrell: 10:22
Yeah, so it'd be 25 years this year. To my knowledge, I believe Reed was one of the first people to import'em, because they are a European duck that was created over there. And then I believe it was Holder Reed that brought some of the first ones over, but then there was no new genetics brought over. And so we all know in breeding poultry, when you continue breeding the same bloodlines over and over, there was a big reduction in size. And that was one of the biggest complaints, especially in show halls, that people would say with the Saxons, they were just too small. They were too small, they were too small. And so that's why I say I've been working with a friend of mine and we did an outcross to another breed, which I'm gonna keep secret. But it's dramatically helped in their size. I had some young ducks last year that at four months old were at eight pounds, which is what an old duck's supposed to be. So we definitely got the size back in'em, which is great. And when you pick'em up and you grab a hold of'em you got a duck in your arms, that's for sure. There's no littleness to'em anymore. At least in the ones I'm raising. But yeah I love'em. And, I'm trying to be a huge promoter of this breed to get'em going again and get'em popular. And I'd love to see more people with'em, showing'em, because visually I say they're a quadruple threat. I know in poultry world, we usually talk about like a triple threat as terms of. Production meat and then exhibition. But the quadruple that I'm going with is personality. I raise Harlequin ducks. My Saxony every year are the first ones to start laying, and they lay just as well as my harlequins do. I'm almost an egg a day from'em. One thing I have noticed, especially this year with them, is I'm getting a lot of double yolked eggs, though. A lot of really big eggs from'em, but like I say, they lay really well. They're a great butcher bird. We've butchered some out in the last couple years. Like I say, you got a bird that's eight, nine pounds. That's a good butcher. And then exhibition they're a very pretty visually stunning bird. And then, like I say, that fourth one is personality. They're one of the sweetest personalities that I have out there. And even with minimal. Hands on. They're really friendly. They're not really wild in a cage when you show'em. And they're just easy to work with.
Jennifer: 12:49
That, I was gonna say, when you
Carey: 12:50
look online about'em and a lot of the stuff that I read, there's a lot of people that they raise them for pets because they are such docile birds.
Tyrell: 13:03
Oh, absolutely. like in the spring when I'm hatching, I'm always looking to call stuff early because it's less stuff I have to feed. And I've definitely had a lot of families local to me here in Montana, we don't have a lot of people that raise exhibition poultry or waterfowl. And so I've sold a lot of them to people around here as pets. And I have people that message me and tell me how much they love'em and how sweet they are. And sometimes they'll send me videos of the ducks hanging out with them or. outta their hand and yeah. No, I know there's a lot of people around here that I've sold some to that have'em just as pets,
Jennifer: 13:37
so I'm assuming they're that heavy that they don't fly.
Tyrell: 13:40
They don't fly. No.
Jennifer: 13:42
Okay. Are they loud?
Tyrell: 13:45
Honestly, my Saxony are Really quiet. They're definitely not like a call duck.
Jennifer: 13:51
You can pick those out in the show hall in an instant.
Tyrell: 13:54
Yeah, no, my saxe are pretty quiet even here, around the place. I don't hear much from'em. Even the females aren't real loud.
Jennifer: 14:03
Even at feed time.
Tyrell: 14:05
Even at feed time. I, especially with my heavy breeds though, I like to just. Keep food in front of'em all the time. So they just have free choice. So they never really give me those hungry screams. But I guess when they have run out of food a time or two they've let me know.
Jennifer: 14:20
Okay. So I'm trying to think if somebody were wanting to keep ducks and they had just a small plot of land, then friendly and. They don't fly, they're not gonna be loud. So the neighbors won't complain. And you're saying they lay more than the welshes because, I have Welshes and they're like laying machines out there, so it's hard to,
Tyrell: 14:48
I don't know on a numbers basis if I'd say they lay more than the Welsh. But out of all the breeds I raise, they definitely lay as well as they do. Like I say, they're the first bird. They're the every year. They're the first breed I have that starts laying as far as my ducks go. And when I go collect eggs, I've never actually put pen to paper and counted. But as a mental note, I collect pretty much an egg a day from them. I will say they fade off in the summer faster than the harlequins do. The harlequins will lay longer. But in the middle of summer, I personally am tired of dealing with eggs. I'd rather just everything stop laying eggs because at that point I just wanna feed babies and get ready for fall.
Jennifer: 15:34
I understand. So is it a large white egg?
Tyrell: 15:37
Yeah. Yep. They lay a big white egg.
Jennifer: 15:40
Alright. So I wanted to ask you, I don't wanna get like super in depth into breeding, but just a quick conversation where you said line breeding the same breed over and over, and the birds were getting smaller. Is that, I know that's a kind of a point of contention sometimes. Is that a selection issue or is that a genetic thing?
Tyrell: 16:05
Or both? Oh gosh. I'm not a geneticist. I just know what I, experienced and learn, but no, I think it's a bit of both. I think line breeding is a very good thing. And a very beneficial thing. But when you're breeding, and it depends on how you line breed too. If you're breeding. A mother to her son and a father to his daughters year after year. No matter what you're raising, you're gonna start having issues and you're gonna see size decrease. I know like in some of my other, my bantam duck breeds, everybody's told me, if you want to fix your size, just breed tighter, meaning line, breed closer. And see, I'm not. I'm not even opposed to when I find traits that I like selectively breeding a brother and sister together for a generation. But then personally, when I come that close, then I like to go back out into a grandparent or even a distant aunt or uncle if that makes sense.
Jennifer: 17:12
But
Tyrell: 17:12
I think with the Saxony, it was a genetic thing. And then, and I think. People are also afraid to outcross to other breeds. I know like in the Y dots, people will sometimes breed to white rocks to try to get a stiffer tail in their Y dots and then come back in and, it's, I think some people get afraid to do stuff like that because then. And it's a personal thing. They just don't view it as a wand dot anymore. But if we all go back, most waterfowl all goes back to the mallard. You know what I mean? All these breeds we have been created at some point in time by crossing other stuff and selectively breeding to create another breed. Look at call ducks and all the different colors of call ducks. People got those colors by breeding other colors together. And the way I look at it is you can't be afraid sometimes to mix another breed. Like my Stein blockers that I'm trying to work on right now. We're trying to create them from scratch, how they did it years and years ago in Germany. And that's where we got another dock that we bred to that I also raise here. I guess I didn't even mention'em before, which is, it's fine. But I'm running two separate breeds simultaneously and then I'm gonna cross back and forth just so that I never get. Those super inbred issues. Hopefully.
Jennifer: 18:40
So eventually in the Saxony, you're going to have to outcross again since only one line was brought over. Do you think or no?
Tyrell: 18:54
Are you talking like from the first imports?
Jennifer: 18:57
Yeah. Is it just the one line that was brought over by Hol Reed or has there been more since?
Tyrell: 19:02
I'm not a hundred percent sure. I really couldn't answer that question. I do know he was one of the first people that brought some over and imported some, I don't know how many he brought, or if it was one or two or three imports I'm really not sure.
Jennifer: 19:15
Yeah. You just gotta play with them and work it out for yourself as a breeder, right?
Tyrell: 19:21
Yep. You're a
Jennifer: 19:22
master at it. Somebody said, so you have certificates.
Tyrell: 19:25
Oh, I don't know if that makes me a master that just means the ducks did well enough. It shows that they earned some points and I got an award for it. I don't think that makes me a master. Yeah. I'm a student of the hobby and forever will be.
Jennifer: 19:40
Yep. Yep, exactly. You just gotta keep working at it.
Tyrell: 19:43
understand that.
Jennifer: 19:45
Yep. Is there anything else that you would like to talk about with the Saxon Ease before we let you go?
Tyrell: 19:53
I think we covered quite a bit of it.
Jennifer: 19:56
Do you sell eggs or chicks or ducklings?
Tyrell: 19:59
I'm not selling eggs or ducklings right now just because I'm trying to refine with doing the outcross. I did sell some young birds last fall. And I'll sell some again. In fact, I actually just, I got asked for donations for the Hot Topa show. Are you guys gonna hot topa? Not this year. So I'll be there for nationals I'm donating a pair of Saxony to their live auction that they're doing. So maybe get somebody else interested, excited in them.
Jennifer: 20:31
If somebody wanted to contact you, what is the best way?
Tyrell: 20:36
Facebook. That's pretty much where I do all of my poultry communication. Shoot me a message on Facebook. That's where I do all my communication, but I'll definitely start selling some more off this year. Can't keep'em all.
Jennifer: 20:51
No, you can't move'em all either.
Tyrell: 20:53
No. I can't move'em all, but this year I decided that it was just gonna be a maintenance year where I just hatched some small numbers just to have a few young birds. 20 was gonna be my target for each breed to hatch out. And last inventory count that I did, I've got 40 Saxony actually I hatched four last week on my first hatch of the year. I had nine hatched this week. Next week I've got some more, but I have, 40 developing, so I am a little over what I was planning on.
Jennifer: 21:26
You know what, it's just bird math. It all makes sense.
Carey: 21:30
It's, it happens.
Tyrell: 21:31
And it's that feeling when you're collecting eggs. At least I'm sure other people are like this, but I know I am. Every time I pick up an egg from the nest. It's that thought of this one might be the show winner. I have to hatch it. The eggs keep coming and that mentality doesn't change, so I just keep putting them in the incubator and that's how I ended up in the issue I had last year is I was hatching, granted, I had probably the best hatching year I ever had in my life. I think at one point, halfway through the season I had hatched 204 or 205 ducklings outta 209 eggs. That's really good. That's insane. I'll never have ear like that again, but you just have to get better at calling. Yes. Some of the best, some of the most successful breeders are the best colors.
Jennifer: 22:20
Yep. What kind of incubator are you using for decades?
Tyrell: 22:24
I run A-G-Q-F-G-Q-F cabinet. I had a friend here. It was gracious enough to just give me an old pair. She gave me an incubator and hatcher and that's what I did the first year. And then I got a newer model, GQF. I use that. I have a, I've got a big 200 model humid air barrel incubator. I use that one year, but that thing is just, it holds 600 eggs and I am not trying to have that many birds and it's expensive to run. It sucks up the electricity. So I haven't plugged that in this year. And then I do have an rcom incubator as well.'cause everyone says you have to incubate duck eggs on their side'cause they do better. I don't know. I've done both ways. I personally, I hatch'em upright just like the chickens and I've had just as good success that way as putting'em on their side. So to each their own, whatever works for everybody. But
Jennifer: 23:24
yeah, you've gotta take your environment in and your humidity and everything else to master incubating. You have to do it within your own environment. I've decided.
Tyrell: 23:38
Oh, absolutely. I try to give people tips, especially'cause I've shipped out Harlequin eggs and some ku eggs and I always try to help people through that process of hatching eggs. I've done it a lot myself. I've incubated a lot of hatching eggs and I've gotten fairly successful at it. And so I just try to help people through that process because. Realistically, every egg I ship out, I want them to hatch for whoever buys'em. You know what I mean? I want them to be successful and have a good hatch, and so I try to help'em through the process and all that stuff.
Jennifer: 24:09
Do you do all of this cooling and misting and all of the other stuff that you see on Facebook with your duck eggs or you just set'em.
Tyrell: 24:18
If I have time, I've done both my very first time ever hatching duck eggs. I bought all these eBay eggs off eBay and had'em all shipped in. Everything was developing Made it all the way right up until Hatch day, and then everything died. And. What I later learned was my humidity was too high and my air cells weren't growing like they should have been. So when everything started to pimp, they just, they were drowning in the eggs'cause there's too much fluid still in them. And so that's, when I try to help people hatch waterfowl and I still don't know if I know what I'm doing. They're hatching, but I don't feel confident in what I'm doing. I just keep doing it. And hope for the best. I've tried it all. I've tried dry hatch in'em. I've tried misting'em. I've tried not washing. I've tried washing. I've tried. I don't know that it makes a difference. Really, some people swear that it helps. I've had the same similar hatch rates trying all the different methods. Biggest thing I can say is candle your eggs frequently. Watch your air cells, make sure they're growing, adjust your humidity accordingly. I do keep a spray bottle in my incubator and I'll pull'em out and let'em sit on the counter for five, 10 minutes I don't sit there and time it, I just go through and I candle, make sure everything's still growing and alive. Anything that's not I pull. And then I'll take that warm water from the bottle and I'll spray'em. And I don't lightly miss'em. I soak'em until they're dripping wet. I mean it they're as wet as dunk them in water. And then I just put'em right back in the incubator, close it up the humidity spikes to 98%, and I just let it come back down on its own. And that's what I do. And sometimes I forget, like I say. I get home at 1130 at night, and sometimes I'm just exhausted and I don't care, and I just check, make sure everything's still running okay, and I go to bed. But if I'm feeling all right, I'll pull everything out and it. And. Sometimes, some days I don't even look at the incubator for three or four days. Some days I look at it every day. I know when I first started, I was a mother hen and I checked it every five minutes it felt like. But now I just what'll be? What will, what's that saying? It'll be what it'll be.
Jennifer: 26:42
I did something yesterday that I can't say I've ever done before. I set a whole tray of Harlequin eggs and they were muddy. It had rained on. Friday. And they were pretty muddy. So I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna wash these bad boys. And I just put'em down in the sink and I just washed them. But I made a note on my, I use tape on everything. And I made a note on there that I washed them.'cause I thought, this would be interesting if these do better, than the other ones.
Tyrell: 27:12
And if you're putting eggs in a clean environment, It'll be clean and sterile. I don't have the time for it now, but couple years ago, I actually was taking one of the square sponges. It's a sponge on one side and a little bristle pad on the other side. I would wash in like lukewarm water and I would scrub every single egg until they were sparkly clean. Every single egg got scrubbed and cleaned and I set'em that way. And I honestly, I didn't notice any difference in my hatch rates. And I'd also actually, I put every incubator's different, but in the gq, fs, anyone who has'em, then there's that hum, the water tray. I put about a tablespoon of bleach in my water and then put that in there. It smelled clean when you opened it up. Made me feel better. I don't know if it did anything.
Jennifer: 28:02
I used to put vinegar in mine. I've had several 15 oh twos over the years and I used to put vinegar in there hoping to keep those mineral deposits. I don't know that worked either.
Carey: 28:12
so what I do is I have a copper, I use copper in my. Tank reservoir to keep out all the sludge and all that kind of stuff. And that's actually been working pretty good.
Tyrell: 28:27
Okay. Yeah, that would work. See, in my GQFI just run, I'm actually on a cistern here. I have to haul water here, but I'm on a cistern and I just, so it's city water, but I use that in the GQF and I get all the mineral deposits on the edges of the water tub. But then in my other machines that have automatic humidity, I only run distilled water through'em. That's the only thing I put through'em is distilled water, just so they don't deposit up and get plugged up and spend that much money on incubators. You try to keep'em nice.
Jennifer: 28:58
Yes, exactly. I super appreciate you joining us today to talk about Saxon East.
Tyrell: 29:06
It's been great. It was fun. It's always fun when fellow poultry people can get together and talk about birds. And anybody that's interested in Saxony, get ahold of me on Facebook.
Carey: 29:17
I like hearing about ducks. I like the look of the Saxony, and one day
Tyrell: 29:24
I will have ducks. You when that time comes, you just let me know I've got some options. Sounds good.
Jennifer: 29:34
All right. Till next time, poultry nerds. Thank you. Bye.
