Hatching Eggs Extended!
This is a follow up from the spring incubating podcast. Incubating in the winter is different and as long as you understand the why’s, you can be successful all year long.
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Carey: 0:05
Hello, and welcome to The Poultry Nerds Podcast, where feathers meet fun. Your podcast hosts are Carey Blackmon and Jennifer Bryant. Together they work hard to bring you the latest news and information from the exciting world of poultry. Sit back and get ready for some egg citing interviews and some foul facts on this episode of Poultry Nerds.
0:28
Mhm.
Carey: 0:35
So I think this is, we did a while back, we talked about hatching eggs and stuff like that. This is going to get a little more in depth into the nitty gritty. Probably ideally for that person that has been binge listening. To our podcast and now they're like, okay, it's almost time we're getting ready. I want to hatch some eggs.
Jennifer: 1:04
I'm kind of nervous about this one because this one is going to be the precursor to my big speech that I'm giving at that convention thing.
Carey: 1:12
We can put it out there and see what the listeners think.
Jennifer: 1:15
Well, hey Carey, we're here today to talk about incubating again.
Carey: 1:19
I see the outline and it starts with a whole bunch of details, you know, in the past we kept it pretty simple.
Jennifer: 1:28
Well, our first incubating podcast has become kind of our most popular one, I think, and so I figured it was time to maybe do another one since we're coming up into winter. And winter incubating is kind of different than summer incubating.
Carey: 1:44
Winter incubating is different than summer incubating. But I got to admit, I'm actually a huge fan of winter incubating. Why? I like winter incubating for several reasons. Number one, I will put a chicken out of my barn. at five weeks. If it's, I don't care how cold it is, which I live in Alabama, that doesn't get terribly cold, terribly fast. So my rule of thumb is five weeks it's going outside. And even in the wintertime, you put a bird out, you put a chick out at five weeks, it's got feathers. You put it somewhere where it, it, the wind can be blocked, but that's it. You know, I do not do heaters. Um, my barn has a heater in it. That is an industrial heater that's mounted to the ceiling that's designed for heating a large space. So I don't have to worry about it catching on fire. And I have the hatching time brooders that have their heater in on, you know, I run that for a week or so, but after that, nada. And for me, you know, your bird has hybrid vigor. If you put it out in the wintertime at five weeks old and it's 20s, 30s, 40s outside. and it survives. Um, you know, you and I both kind of see a lot of like, we want, we want the survivors, um, because we want that hybrid vigor. We want the best of the best. And as a breeder, you, you should always be trying to improve your flock. Even if you're like Sue, who has amazing Rhode Island Reds, she still works to improve her flock. Or you and your coachings, your coachings, they're, they're huge. They have that beautiful sheen, but you still breed to make them better. And I would say even somebody that has. Barnyard mix. They want, they want their birds to live and they want'em to be survivors. So I like it for that reason. And you know when chicks, when they get cool, they don't die. Mm-Hmm. when they get really hot and they dehydrate really fast, like putting'em outside in the summertime when it's a hundred degrees and the humidity is. about a hundred as well. So it feels like it's 115. You lose them really quick. But if you start them in the wintertime and I don't know, it's always worked out and made for a better bird. And also in the wintertime, birds tend to eat more so they get more nutrition in them. And it makes them grow better. Their feathering turns out better. They're meatier and less fatter. I don't know. That's just me.
Jennifer: 4:49
I think it probably has something to do with the environment. Maybe up north might not be as good, but as Southerners, you know, this is our time to shine. You know, we've been holed up for the last two months. Yeah.
Carey: 5:00
Yeah. Now I have talked to John up in Vermont and he said seven, eight weeks. He don't care what time of year it is. They go outside.
Jennifer: 5:13
So,
Carey: 5:14
and I mean, they're, they're not far from snow. Even at the, at the end of September, they, they're probably already getting snow up there.
Jennifer: 5:25
Well, if you're just starting out and wanting to learn more about incubating, I would go back and listen to the first one, because that one's going to be more of a starter type incubating that we did back in the spring, this one, I'm going to do a little bit more advanced. because I feel like if you understand why we do some things, then regardless of what incubator you have, if it's a 20 one or a 2, 000 one, you would be able to tweak it to work better if you understand the whys of why we do things. Okay. So, The starting point of any incubator is 99. 5, uh, to, to incubate any bird, I think, isn't it? All birds are 99. 5. I don't know about emus or anything, but I was
Carey: 6:21
going to say that would be the only thing that I'm not sure about is emus or ostriches, but I know quail, any kind of chicken, anything that has an egg smaller than 80 grams, normal size poultry, you know, I don't, I don't know where an emu or ostrich would fall into that, but normal poultry. 99. 5 is where it's at.
Jennifer: 6:46
Right, and you don't want to go hotter because you're going to bake your eggs and you really don't want to be cooler because you're not giving them enough warmth to basically germinate, I guess would be a good word in there, right? Much like a plant, huh?
Carey: 7:03
Yeah,
Jennifer: 7:03
you need to cook them. It's
Carey: 7:04
not going to start.
Jennifer: 7:05
Yep, yep, you need to do it just right. So keep it at 99. 5. Um, and if you're using a Smaller incubator, you know, a cheap one, 20 one, a free one. You found somewhere, put it back in the styrofoam packaging. Cause that will act like an insulator,
Carey: 7:23
um, to
Jennifer: 7:23
keep the temperature steady. And you're going to want it in a room with consistent temperature. Um, don't put it in your garage or it's going to be hot during the day and cold at night. Put it, um, don't put it in your laundry room on top of your dryer. Um, just set it somewhere away from floor vents, ceiling fans, not near your wood stove. Um, just find somewhere that's going to be very consistent. Um, I had a friend one time that had a big 1502 and she swore that thing was messed up and I went over there to look at it for her and she literally had it beside her back door. So every time you open the back door the cold air would blow on it and I just looked at her and went doo da dee. Let's move this thing away from the back door.
Carey: 8:14
So when I first got my hatching time, the CT 180, the most consistent place that I had was in my living room. And I actually got away with that for a little while. Um, my wife did not get upset until about the second or third hatch. Uh, I had a, I had an egg explode.
Jennifer: 8:40
And,
Carey: 8:40
um, yeah, that was, she was like, uh, uh, you need a barn and that needs to go in it. So, but it was consistent and the humidity is consistent in there as well because, you know, I have my air conditioning running, I have a dehumidifier to keep it down. And that's another thing that's very important that we'll talk about in a little bit.
Jennifer: 9:04
Yep. All right. So you've got your incubator going. We're at 99. 5. So now let's, we're going to talk about, um, let's talk about the parts of the egg. So an egg has three parts. You're going to start with the shell with the bloom on it and you do not want to wash that off. If it is a cruddy egg, um, you might could scrape it off, but if it's extra cruddy, just eat that one, wash it, eat it. Just find another clean egg, um, to set. This is where your nesting boxes come in handy, having them clean. So you need to have some clean eggs with the bloom still on them. I'm not going to say a washed egg won't work, because I had a lady who I always hatched a four dozen a year for and she washed them with Dawn and she had a great hatch rate, but I would not recommend that. Um, and then of course you've got your egg yolk. The yolk is going to be the nutrition for the chick and that nutrition comes from the breeder's nutrition. So make sure your breeders are getting proper nutrition. Otherwise your chick won't have what it needs to grow and hatch. The air cell is the last thing, um, that's going to be in the fat end of the egg. And that's why we always tell people to storm point to keep the air cell where it's supposed to be. Now there is a term called saddled air cell. Um, that is where the air cell actually breaks and it kind of floats around in there. The best thing I could tell you to see that is if you take one of your fresh eggs that you do not intend to incubate, and just shake the fire out of it with your hand, just put it in your hand and shake the fire out of it, and then candle it. Well, candle it before you shake it, and then candle it after you shake it, and compare the two. You're gonna see what a saddled egg, uh, saddled air cell looks like. Um, a good air cell is going to stay put in the fat end of the egg. And a saddled one is going to float around like soda bubbles in there, kind of just move around. So just experiment with the kids, let them look at it, then shake the fire out of it and look at it again. You'll learn something. It's called a saddled air cell. All right. So those are your egg parts. Um, now before you even get started, you've got to make sure your fertility is there. Make sure you have a rooster. I have seen that question on some groups. You do have to have a rooster. Kerry's shaking his head.
Carey: 12:01
So people, people ask this. And this, this is really sad, but I'm going to admit it. I got a call from my daughter at the time she was 22 and she said, she was at her boyfriend's house and she said, dad, we're having a discussion. I said, okay. And she said, does a hand need a roaster to lay eggs? And I, I said, Tori, I got to go by because I was busy and she calls back and she says, dad, I'm serious. Does a hen need a rooster to lay an egg? And I said, okay, Tori, let me break this down as to the simplest thing that I can. Once a month, you have an egg. And she said, yeah, I said, do you need a guy for that? That that's like a natural part of a woman's body. And she says, oh, OK. I said, all right. Now, if you want to hatch that egg, You've got to have a rooster, but if you don't want to hatch the egg, you don't. And she said, we're never having this conversation again. Thank you. But like, I don't know how many times I've seen that question come up and it's hilarious every time. I'm sorry.
Jennifer: 13:39
So you got to have a rooster. That's number one. And then since we're talking about winter incubation, let's talk about frozen eggs for a minute. If you're planning on incubating, you need to collect your eggs pretty regularly, especially if it's below freezing. My, my birds all lay in the morning. So that's pretty easy to go out there and collect them about nine or 10 o'clock. Um, but that's just something you have to decide for yourself where you live, what their schedule is. Um, if they've been frozen, then you need to set those ones aside for you to eat for breakfast. Um, but to incubate them, you need to keep them above freezing. Alrighty, so let's go back in my outline here. I told Keri that I didn't like my Sequence of events. I've been jumping around here. Okay. So candling my biggest pet peeve. Biggest pet Pee is don't handle, don't do, don't handle
Carey: 14:48
And I, I understand when you got like a, a 12 or 20 egg incubator like the, they typically, you know, you look at the NR 360, which is probably one of the most common under$200. Um, one's on the market and it's got that nice clear shell on it and you're just sitting there and you're watching them move around and you really want, you're like, what is one in there? But every time you pop that dome, you start over with your temperature and your humidity.
Jennifer: 15:22
And
Carey: 15:23
I understand out outside when a hen gets up, Uh, that happens, but it's also typically in the summertime when it's already in the nineties for a lot of folks. So there's not a big temperature drop because unless you keep it in the nineties in your house and you know, the humidity is what it is for them, which I had a broody hen hatch some out and she, she wouldn't even get up to eat.
Jennifer: 15:51
Yeah. don't know when
Carey: 15:52
she got up.
Jennifer: 15:53
I think that people think broodies get up more than they do, but the only time my broodies get up is with my foot moving them.
Carey: 16:01
Mm
Jennifer: 16:02
hmm.
Carey: 16:03
Yeah.
Jennifer: 16:04
All right. So candling, I'm against candling. Now, if you want a candle at lockdown, which is a man made term, not a natural term, but we're going to talk about that in a minute. If you want a candle at lockdown, I will permit it.
Carey: 16:20
I know the another, another perfect time for you to candle.
Jennifer: 16:24
What?
Carey: 16:25
When you're making Balut, when you're making Balut, that's like a vital part of the Balut. But even, even then you only do it at the end of the process.
Jennifer: 16:37
Yeah, yeah. So just leave them alone. Let them cook. You paid money for them. You've got time invested in them. Just let them cook. Don't bother them. Okay. So let's talk about the parts of the incubator and that's going to go with candling. So every incubator comes with a water reservoir, vents, a turner, um, and a heater. So the heater needs to keep it constant. The water reservoir is obviously for putting water in it if you need it. Vents, now vents are more important than people think they are. A air. I mean, an egg has air exchange
Carey: 17:19
from
Jennifer: 17:20
the beginning. And so ventilation is key for birds from day one in the shell still. So you can't close up those vents because they need fresh air. And then the Turner is what keeps the chicks from getting stuck to the membrane. Now, this is only important. Until the chick starts moving on its own. So as time goes on, the turner is really less important. Um, so people get hung up on this, I'm air quoting, lockdown here. Um, they get hung up on when to take the turner out. Don't, don't stress it, okay? Um, So when you do your countdown, when you put those eggs in there, that's zero, the time is zero. Cause they've been in there zero amount of time.
Carey: 18:19
Right.
Jennifer: 18:19
And then you're going to take that turner out. So for quail, that's roughly day 14. Chickens is 18. Ducks is 25 ish. Turkey is 25 ish. Um, so
Carey: 18:35
three to four days ahead of time.
Jennifer: 18:37
Exactly. But guess what? If you do it 10 days ahead of time, it's okay, because the chicks in there moving all around.
Carey: 18:46
Okay, so here, here's another thing that I don't like about heat incubating in the summertime. Um, even when you gather your eggs every day, it's still real hot outside. So, I actually turned mine, put mine in the hatching baskets four days ahead of time because I'm a little gun shy. Because one time I waited to the evening, so it was like closer to two and barely over the three days. And, um, I picked an egg up out and I set it down and it cracked. And I was like, is this going to be good or bad? And then I see a beak coming out of the hole. And I was like, maybe I should have done this yesterday, not today. Not sometime during that three days before, but I'm, I'm doing four days before now.
Jennifer: 19:50
Yeah. Well, you know, do as we say, not as we do. So I said on Fridays, I move on Fridays. Um, so I'm just going to tell you real quick what I do. I sent on Fridays and of course, majority of what I said is quail. So two weeks later, I move them to the hatching basket. They hatch on Mondays. Okay. But if I have chickens in there, which I do right now, they're still going to get moved in two weeks. They're just going to stay in the hatching basket for a whole week instead of just three days. And the reason why I do that is because my brain says, Hey, it's Friday. You have to do something with eggs. It never says, Hey, it's Wednesday. You've got chickens in the incubator. You got to do something with eggs. So everything that I have gets moved on a Friday. So anyway, don't stress over the days that you take the Turner out. Okay. All right. Now, the reason why winter incubating, which is, this is the heart of the podcast now, the reason why we're going to talk about winter incubating is, let's just talk logistics for a minute. In the summertime, we have a lot of humidity, um, heat, rain, humidity. In the wintertime, we have our heaters going. Heaters dry out the air. That's why we put humidifiers on to put moisture back in the air for our own personal sinuses and stuff. So if you kind of look at it that way, we need, um, we need to add humidity back into the air. So if you've been dry hatching in the summer, which we do here in middle Tennessee, I cannot dry hatch once the heat comes on because then the humidity will be too low. Okay. Does that make sense?
Carey: 21:48
Yeah, it does. And there's a lot of people out there, like there's whole groups that swear by dry hatching. And I'm going to say summertime, Tennessee South, two thumbs up because it's, I mean, the humidity is like a hundred outside. It's at least going to be 45 to 50. And that's why a lot of people in the South have really good luck dry hatching. Terry, he dry hatches. all the time. He lives in Florida. It's humid there. It works great. Now, up north, when you got your heater running in your hatching room, just to keep it to like 60 so your incubator can stay at 99. 5 like it should, probably not going to have a whole lot of humidity in the air. And your incubator is probably going to go through a lot of water. even to maintain a 40 or 45 percent humidity.
Jennifer: 23:00
Yes.
Carey: 23:00
Yeah.
Jennifer: 23:02
Yes. So, depending on what kind of incubator that you have, this is where you're going to have to play with your personal setup. If you live in an old house where the humidity just get sucked into the walls, you're going to have to put in a room humidifier and really watch that water in your humid, in your incubator. But, um, a room humidifier will work. The biggest thing here, and this is where the problem is going to be, is consistency is still the most important thing. So if you can only get it to 35 percent and keep it consistent, then that is what you need to do. Now, I personally incubate at 45%. Um, I wouldn't incubate any higher myself. I think that that becomes an issue and we're going to talk about that in a minute, but consistency. So the more expensive incubator that you have, probably the better control you're going to have over that. Um, but those, the common ones, the farm innovators, the nature right 360s, those are going to have a lot of fluctuations. So you have to work within your, your environment in your house or wherever you have it set to keep it as consistent as you possibly can. Now, if you have early hatches, the air cells are too small, the chicks are sticky. They have enlarged abdomens. They're not pipping on the in, on the side of the egg like they're supposed to. These are all signs that your humidity is too high. and you need to bring it down. If your aerosol is too large, small chicks, splayed legs, they pip and die. Um, then you're too dry. Okay. And a lot of these things can be mistaken for incorrect temperatures. So first and foremost, make sure you're staying consistent at 99. 5. And then if you have these other problems that I just mentioned, then you need to make notes and say, Hey, okay, I did this one at 35 percent and this is what I ended up with. So which way should I go? adjust up or down to fix the issues and you can very easily do that and you can be successful with a more inexpensive incubator. You're just going to have to make notes and pay more attention. So, and then the last point I want to make is the detached air cells like we talked about at the beginning. The best way to hatch those is upright. Put them in an egg carton, leave them in the turner. If you're hatching, if your turner is upright, not a side by side, um, just let them hatch upright. Uh, that keeps the air cell where it's supposed to be in the fat end. And the chick can orientate itself correctly if it's upright like that for its air cell.
Carey: 26:32
Got it.
Jennifer: 26:33
So, all right. Did I, did I go over that pretty good? People kind of understand the differences.
Carey: 26:42
I mean, yeah, if not, you know, they can listen again. Um, I did, I did find out that an emu is 90. 5, not 99. 5.
Jennifer: 26:59
Okay, so all you emu readers take note.
Carey: 27:02
Uh, yeah, if you're going to try that. Uh, also, you're going to have to be very patient because it is a 56 day process.
Jennifer: 27:13
Holy moly.
Carey: 27:14
Yeah. That explains, that explains why there's so much. Um, I don't know. It, for me, okay. I like having my turkeys. I'm really thankful for those, but how cool would it be to have a couple of emus running around too?
Jennifer: 27:34
I don't know. David won't let me.
Carey: 27:39
I mean, who runs that farm? Geez.
Jennifer: 27:45
I'll just let you run. If
Carey: 27:47
they just showed up.
Jennifer: 27:49
Oh, I know, right?
Carey: 27:50
I mean, they're cute. He's not going to be like, no, he's gonna be like, oh, where did those come from?
Jennifer: 27:57
Well, every time he has surgery, I get a new animal, so.
Carey: 28:01
Oh, Lord. Well, he um, that, that explains, that explains it right there. So When the air is drier, uh, you want to put water in it, obviously you want to keep humidity around 40, 45, whatever constant, you know, there's some people I've actually seen people that run it up to 80.
Jennifer: 28:31
No.
Carey: 28:32
And I'm like, no. Now, for me, I will incubate at 45 and my hatcher is at 50, is what it starts. And I say what it starts because when, when I put them in the hatcher, it's set at 50. Now, after a couple of birds pip and things start hatching out, man, your humidity is going to shoot way up. No way around that. It happens. That's what you want to happen. That's why they need the vent holes so the fans can blow all that stuff out. But as far as you manually running it up that high, you're going to drown your birds.
Jennifer: 29:18
Yeah, anytime you get even close to 70 or above you need to open those vents. Now, I know some of the cheaper incubators don't have vents And I myself started with a cheap incubator years ago And what I would do, um, I used to wear little readers, you know, like from the dollar store And I would put the earpiece in the corner of the lid just to crack it enough to drop it because I mean think about it when you get out of um, I don't know. When you get out of a sauna, you can't dry your hair in that humidity of that room, dry and fluff either. So you need to dry it out so that chick can dry and fluff.
Carey: 30:00
So the first incubator that I had in my house was probably about 10, maybe 12 years ago, my son wanted to incubate some, and he brought home one of the GQL styrofoam incubators. And. When they started, like, you know, before they even pipped, you can hear the chicks inside the eggs, like, Hey, I'm fixing to come out, you know, making that chirping sound when that happened, the humidity shot way up. So what I did was I picked up a corner, stuck a pencil in there and let it rest on that and that dropped it down. I mean, it was, it was still. A lot higher than it started out at, but it dropped it down to where we had a pretty successful hatch and, um, some of those, there's two of those birds that are actually still alive that I know of. So, yeah,
Jennifer: 31:02
well, you have to make yourself notes. So if you're just starting out. Just put, um, I mean, a notepad beside your incubator and write down anything. That's how I learned,
Carey: 31:16
um,
Jennifer: 31:16
what worked and what didn't work. And I've been incubating probably 14 years now at this point, maybe.
Carey: 31:26
Probably the last tip that I have for somebody is if you do, Buy one of those and, and I'm not knocking a cheap incubator by no means. If you buy a 20 or 200 or even a 1, 000 incubator, the first set of eggs you put in there needs to be barnyard, something somebody gave you, something out of your own pen, something like that, because you're going to have to dial in. You know, which, how far do I open these vents? Which vent holes do I need to open? You're going to have to dial all that in. So don't do that on 150 a dozen set of hatching eggs. Don't, don't run the risks. Um, I know somebody that did and they got really lucky because the person sent three extra. So they had 15 eggs and they still had 12 hatch out, but they also started with the 1000 model and not the 20 model if the humidity and temperature wasn't kept consistent regularly. They might've had to hatch out. So when you're dialing in your incubator, don't use expensive hatching eggs.
Jennifer: 32:52
Yes. So I just thought of something, maybe this would help if you're new to it or still trying to tweak your stuff. Um, keep that notepad right there. But when you, when you make yourself notes, um, put down the humidity and of the incubator, but also put down the temperature and humidity of the room that it's in. Because that information would help you later, because incubating in January with gas heat on is going to be tremendously different than July with the air conditioner on. And In your incubator, your model in your environment is going to be very different than mine because I incubate in the barn with a concrete floor, a bare concrete floor. So, my humidity stays up more down there.
Carey: 33:46
Um,
Jennifer: 33:47
so I, I have, I air to the higher humidity and have to work to keep it down. Yeah. So, and then it's also going to depend on your nutrition. Where the eggs shipped, were they yours? Are they, I mean, there's so many variables that go into it. And, and while we like to sit here and tell you exactly how to incubate, in all honesty, we can only give you guidelines and information, but it's up to you with your eggs, your environment, your incubator to make notes and figure out what works for you.
Carey: 34:26
Ultimately, You have to fight yourself, fight the urge to want to candle them, leave them in there, let your incubator do its job, wait your, wait your time and see what happens. Make notes and good luck with it.
Jennifer: 34:47
Yeah. I want to say one more thing about candle and before we leave, when you have to open that incubator to candle, not only are you changing the temperature, but you're shocking the egg with a different humidity. And so if you visualize the egg holding its temperature and holding its humidity inside of it, and then a blast of cold air hits it, it's going to want to, um, Condensate even Or it's going to want to acclimate to the new temperature. And so every single time you open that incubator, if you are candling 15 eggs, that's 15 shocks every time you open it. Right. So if you paid money for those eggs and you want them to hatch, don't candle them. If you're new to incubating and you're trying to learn by all means, candle them, but also know that your hatch rate is going to be less. I mean, I candled the fire out of some duck eggs when I first started. That's, duck eggs are the coolest things to candle because the shells are so clear
Carey: 35:53
when
Jennifer: 35:53
you candle them. But, I mean, these, if you're trying to candle Moran eggs and you're a newbie, don't even try. Just set them and forget them. Just leave them alone.
Carey: 36:04
Yeah, to candle Moran eggs, if you have a good Moran that's laying a seven or darker egg, you're You need a very bright light that, I mean, may blind the, blind the chick inside because them eggs are dark.
Jennifer: 36:25
Yep. Just leave them alone till they hatch.
Carey: 36:29
That's right. Let them hatch.
Jennifer: 36:31
All right. Well, if you guys have questions, need further information, find us at poultrynerds. com. I'm going to actually link some, an article that I got some of this information from in the show notes. So you can find it there to reference, but let us know if you need any more information.
Carey: 36:51
Have a good one.
Jennifer: 36:52
Thanks. Bye.
Carey: 36:53
Thank you for joining us this week. Before you go, be sure to subscribe to our podcast so that you can receive the new episodes right when they are released. Feel free to email us at poultrynerds@gmail.com and share your thoughts about the show. Be sure to also give us a like and a follow on Facebook. Until next time, poultry pals, keep clucking, keep learning, and keep it eggciting. This is Carey signing off from Poultry Nerds. Feathers up, everyone.
