Selecting the Cream of the Crop: Navigating Breed Selection Part 1
Breed Selection is super important in improving a line. Learn the basics to look for and deciding goals.
-
Carey: 0:00
Hi, and welcome to the Poultry Nerds Podcast. I'm Carey Blackmon, and I'm here with my co host for the show, Jennifer Bryant. And we're here to help you figure out how to raise the healthiest, happiest, and highest quality birds possible.
Jennifer: 0:29
Today we're going to talk about what kind of chicken you want to get into breeding and What made you decide to get those particular kinds of chickens? Did you want them for eggs, to eat bugs, to be pretty out in your yard, to breed them, to show them? What was your reasons for getting into the birds you chose?
Carey: 0:51
So for that, I want to ask you a question. For our listeners, they don't realize that you actually breed T Rexes, I mean your, your Orpingtons. Yes. And your kins Cochin cos Sorry I messed that up. Every time yep but you, your birds have won some very nice awards. Yes. Pretty ribbons. You've got the beautiful silver platter that you've gotten from your coaching. What, why? Why did you decide to start with dinosaurs?
Jennifer: 1:25
Well, when we first got back into chickens as an adult we got Buff Warpingtons. That's what we started with. That's just the quintessential chicken that everybody seems to see flittering through the yard, you know. And, and that's what David and I really liked, so that's what we started with. And then we decided to get into the exhibition quality type birds. And they are enormous compared to the run of the mill hatchery quality birds. Well then one day I got this brilliant idea that I needed to also have a Brahma, a light Brahma on the farm because they're really pretty too. And so I bought some light Brahma hatching eggs. And when light Brahmas hatch, they're yellow. And I got a black one. So I texted the breeder and I'm like what's this? Because I had never seen a black. Light from a chick before and she said oh, that's a coach and I'm gonna need that back No, I think I will keep it So he grew up and his name actually was pretty boy Because he's so pretty and he would strut around the yard and he had this weird head twitch that he would do and I just loved that bird. He was really, really sweet. So, I got to looking around and realized that he was hatchery quality. He wasn't really anything to want back, honestly. And so, I found a APA judge, actually, who bred cochins. And I bought my starting trio from him and had them shipped down. And that's how I got into Cochins. Okay. And I don't have Brahmas anymore.
Carey: 3:04
So basically you accidentally got into cochins. I did. I will say that the ones that you have, they are ginormous and they are very fluffy, but the, the hue that the feathering has is beautiful. That
Jennifer: 3:22
beetle green sheen. Yeah. You have to work on that.
Carey: 3:26
I mean, I feel like there's a lot that goes into it. Before you take them to a show, they probably go through a whole beauty regimen. And I mean, we can, I'd like to, I'd like to hear more about that later for sure. Yeah. So what is the real difference? You said hatchery quality. I heard you say that a couple of times. What's, what's the difference and why, why does it matter?
Jennifer: 3:50
So a bird that is bred for show or to the standard of perfection per the APA rules or per the breeders club they, they have certain characteristics called type that you want to look for. So, for example, an Orpington has a very fairly level top line. It has like a 15, 20 degree angle to the tail. But a hatchery quality, or utility type, Orpington, a lot of times when you see them they almost look like an Australorp with almost a U shaped top line. And they can be very narrow through the body, and a very narrow, we call them pinched tails. Their tail will actually come up to a point, but the Orpington, the standard bred Orpington will have a very full rear view look to them. I always call it like a flower. It it opens up almost into a perfect circle. And a hatchery quality is very pinched, like an upside down V, almost. So, it's a very different body type. And, in, at the end of the day, there's really not a whole lot of I don't know, resemblance. Like, once you know what to look for, there's not a whole lot of resemblance between the two.
Carey: 5:19
Yeah, there's, there's been times, there's, in Alabama, Around the Birmingham area. There's a lot of people that are breeders. And, you know, I see that I've got some, some actual standard bred Rhode Island reds and, you know, I've seen a lot of those in the past. You know, before I actually got to lay eyes, sorry, my incubators doing it's thing, but before I got to lay eyes on an actual standard bread to the APA's Standard of Perfection. Hey, I didn't, I didn't realize, you know, I see these good looking birds around here and I'm like, Oh, that's a good looking red right there. But now that I actually have some standard bread poultry in my yard. The ones that are trying to play them off as being standard bred poultry, when they look nothing like what the American Poultry Association says they should look like. Right.
Rip Stalvey: 6:29
Hi there, fellow poultry enthusiasts. I'm Rip Stalby from the Poultry Keepers podcast. Please pardon me for interrupting. I promise I won't take long, but there's something I need to tell you. I hope you're enjoying this Poultry Nerds podcast as much as I am. I think my friends Carey Blackmon and Jennifer Bryant are doing a great job here, and I know they have even more fantastic shows in the works. You better subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. Ha! I know I sure will. Now let's get back to Carey and Jennifer.
Jennifer: 7:07
Well, and there's, and there's a reason. I mean, hatchery quality is fine. They grow faster. They lay earlier. They eat bugs the same, you know, they're cheaper.
Carey: 7:19
They lay a lot more.
Jennifer: 7:20
They do lay a lot more. So if you're looking for bug eaters, egg layers something to have, then there's no reason to spend money on the standard bread. Just go get, you know, your neighbor's Buff Orpington's or, mixes or whatever it is that you want. There's nothing wrong with, with a utility bird. They all have their, their purposes. And and that's something that when you go to get chickens, that you need to decide. I mean, what, what is it that you want out of them? If you just want eggs, and you just want something to eat the, the chiggers, then by all means, I would, I would highly suggest barnyard mixes. The hybrid vigor, the health from them, you know, like getting a mutt dog, it'd be the same thing. Yep, they would be healthier. And you don't have a lot of money into them because I mean, everything wants to eat chicken. So if you lose one to a hawk, you're not going to be out a hundred dollars, you know?
Carey: 8:26
Personally, I would like to see a hawk that could take one of your Buff Orpingtons.
Jennifer: 8:33
I've had them try. Now I, keep Pyrenees out there with mine, and I did have one try in 2022. We saw it come down, but Bear also saw it come down, and the hawk did Get its hands on the pullet, his hands, his claws on the pullet but bear got his mouth on the hawk.
Carey: 8:59
I Had to have been a pullet because I mean going back to looking at your chickens I mean, you've got some way 10 12 pounds easy. Oh easy. Yeah, and that's I mean, I guess is that a hawk or a Teradactyl?
Jennifer: 9:15
Well, I don't, I don't worry too much about the hawks, in all honesty. I know that that's a big concern for a lot of people. Turkeys are good to keep. You know, hawks won't mess with turkeys, and I have turkeys out there. But I have three LGDs, so I don't really worry too much about hawks. So, now, another thing that you could keep, that if you just wanted eggs You don't want to worry about the birds flying over your fence, because you could get a heavy duck. The hawks won't bother the big heavy ducks, and they'll eat the bugs, they'll lay the eggs so you don't even need to get chickens if you didn't want to.
Carey: 9:55
I mean, you could, for that matter, you could get a stack, put a bunch of quail in it, and you can get eggs that way. They're not going to eat the bugs in the yard. No, they won't. The, the, no. They're, my quail are very picky eaters.
Jennifer: 10:11
No, yeah, mine aren't. I do have a funny deck story. So last summer or the summer before when the cicadas were out? Okay, so they're everywhere, right? And we don't have a lot of trees. So the cicadas were kind of just buzzing around and on the ground and stuff. Now I have the big heavy, well, there's, they're technically a medium, but all my birds are too big. So I have heavy Welsh Harlequins. And They were standing there, and the cicada flew by, and the duck he was a young male, he just reached out, and I wish I had caught it on video, because it would be a world famous TikTok but he reached out and grabbed that cicada, and it was screaming, like, for life, it was just screaming, and it was struggling with him, so he put his head down, and he, Like pushed it against the ground to kind of like regroup his grip on it and then he put his head up and he swallowed it And that cicada was in his crop, screaming bloody murder. And that duck is looking at me like, Do something! This is not right! You need to do something about this! And so he went running off because he didn't know what to do. That's hilarious. Oh, I was done laughing.
Carey: 11:33
That is, that is very, that's funny. It was great. What are your opinions on the let's call them yard candy. The the pretty birds that look good out in the yard that don't really lay a lot of eggs and
Jennifer: 11:51
So I do get a lot of people that come and buy my birds for that now I'm a different kind of breeder in the sense that my extras if I can't use them for my purposes Then to me, they're just another chicken. And so the term there would be pet quality and and I just sell them off as as just You know, the same price and whatever as a barnyard mix type bird. And so people will wait for me to do that because they want what they call a yard candy, because they, they're not going to breed it. They're not interested in showing it. They just want to look out the window and see that big giant Orpington or that. Giant black coching. I mean, you've got to admit that those things walking across the yard, make a statement. So, I mean, I have people that, that will come and get them just so they can watch them walk across their yard.
Carey: 12:52
So one breed that I have recently fell in love with is the American Bresse. Mm hmm. I got some of those. I got a five pullets that They're about five, six months old now. Beautiful white birds that have the red combs and waddles that, I mean, they're, they're like a perfect vibrant red, their legs are gray. Which is very unique to me. I thought it was really cool, but you know, the Polly Shore movie where he's chasing the chicken and he's wondering if it's extra crispy or original recipe. Well, this, this rooster that I have, like the drumsticks on this guy are huge and he's six months old and he weighs a little over 10 pounds. Wow. And I'm like. What? This is crazy. And the more research that I've done on these birds, The French consider them to be a delicacy.
Jennifer: 13:58
Their meat's supposed to marble, right?
Carey: 14:00
Their meat will marble. There's a, there's a process that you gotta go through in the finishing. Like if, if you're planning on, on culling the bird and putting it on your table, letting it be table candy. There is a process that you can go through and certain things that you feed them the last couple of weeks to get their, to get them marbled the way they should be. But I mean, I want to, I want to try it on one of them to see now these, the ones that I have are really nice. They are very, very close to the French standard. Obviously it's not recognized by APA yet. So we don't have an American standard yet. We do. There is actually somebody that I know is a friend of mine that's in the process of working through that. She's gotten the documentation and. You know, she's submitted a lot of the stuff and it's, I think it's been reviewed once or twice already, but I'm planning on, on breeding those because they're huge and, and they're really, you know, if they're really sought after by the French for eating, I like to eat a good chicken. So
Jennifer: 15:13
a medium or a large egg
Carey: 15:16
it's anywhere between 50 and 60 grams. is a good one that that's a good one to set in your incubator. The ones that are like 65 plus there, a lot of them are double yokers and double yokers are fine, but that that doesn't meet my objection. So I have identified one that is a double yoker and she has a I call it ankle monitor. She's got a leg band on and when I'm done getting her up to size she is actually going to be the first one that goes into the kitchen.
Jennifer: 15:58
Well, remind me and I'll bring you some milk and we can see if we can get her marbled.
Carey: 16:03
That's right, because you have cows and you have raw milk. That'll work out. Perfect. Cause I'm curious. I mean, who doesn't want to, I know Chick fil A is great, but who doesn't want to see what a hundred dollar chicken sandwich is like?
Jennifer: 16:21
So do you have to grow them out six months to get them up to size?
Carey: 16:26
Yeah. They're, they're a, what you would call a heritage bird or a standard bird. They're, they don't. They don't grow ridiculously fast like the Cornish crosses do. But that's like 16, 17 different mutations that there's nothing natural about a Cornish cross, which is why a lot of people don't like them.
Jennifer: 16:47
I love them. I ordered 200 the other day.
Carey: 16:51
And I mean, you know what my wife, she prefers her chicken to be boneless skinless. and that's what it is. And we go through a lot. I mean, that 200 at my house with the crew that I have might last us six to eight months of chicken. But from what I've been told, this full size bird is a whole different taste. My Granddaddy raised BeefMasters and he had chickens, which is what got me into poultry originally. and there was, I mean, until I was 19 years old working in a meat market, I did not eat meat that wasn't wrapped up in butcher paper. and my wife right before my granddaddy passed away. was the first time that she actually went to the store to buy beef. And when she did, I told her what to get. And we noted that it tasted different and that we liked pasture raised better. So that's, I'm trying to work around to that with the poultry. And I'm hoping that this, this Bresse will get me where I want to be with the, the chicken aspect.
Jennifer: 18:11
We eat our Orpingtons and our Cochins. I prefer not to eat the Cochins for various reasons that I won't get into, but I don't, I do eat the Orpingtons, most of them actually. And we do a batch of Cornish Cross every year. From March until May, we do the Cornish. And I had a customer here, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago. And she asked me why. what I do Cornish if I was doing Orpington. And I'm like, well, it's kind of like saying, would you eat venison instead of beef? Yes, I like venison, but it's different than beef. And so the Orpington has a different texture than the Cornish cross. And I, it's just having a variety in the freezer is why we do both. Choosing a breeder quality or potential show bird, they kind of go together. So getting quality birds, they're very hard to find and it takes a lot of patience and You would need to, once you decided on which breed and which variety, which means color that you wanted to have, you would need to research the breeders. And I would start with the breed clubs. So like, for example, the Orpingtons, United Orpington Club, the Cochins International, I'm sure yours have breed clubs, right?
Carey: 19:45
The Rhode Island Red Club of America. Right there is an American Bresse. I actually think there's two of them. And they have, one of the things that I like about the Bresse and their breeders list is before you can get on their breeders list and be considered a reputable reader, you have to show that you've been working with that bird for two years. So you can't just wake up one day, order some hatching eggs and boom, I'm on the breeder list. Mm-Hmm. I like that because there's a lot of people that decide I'm gonna be a breeder, but they don't, they don't get the education to learn what a breeder is. Mm-Hmm. and, and they really, they're really just cloning chickens. Exactly and you know, back to the standards that we talked about a while ago, if you're cloning chickens. And you're not culling chickens, then you could be replicating bad blood. And that's, that's not good. You know, that's no,
Jennifer: 20:56
you're, you're being
Carey: 20:57
a hatchery. That's yeah, you're being a hatchery and that's, I don't know, there's, I understand that you have to hatch chickens out to make money, but I also understand that you should have some kind of ethics that you go by. And maintaining the purity of the lines that you choose to work with. Now, if you want to get online and advertise that you're a barnyard hatchery, then, hey, more power to you. But, you know, I really feel like if you're going to work with any breed, you need to maintain the quality and the purity of that breed. Yeah,
Jennifer: 21:41
I agree and then you need to make your decisions and pick for the direction that you want to go, you want to pick the color, the type, the, you want to make sure your skin color is correct and, and all of those things go into making a breed what it is. You can't have a Buff Orpington with black legs. That's not pure. That's not how it's supposed to look. Now once you go on and find your breed clubs, each breed club should, at least the ones I belong to, have breeder directories. Mm hmm. And, and you can usually find those on their websites. Most of them have Facebook group pages. Yeah. And then at the very minimum you can ask for references. Thank you for joining us this week. Before you go, don't forget to hit the subscribe to our podcast. So you get new episodes weekly, right in your inbox. You can email us at poultrynerds@gmail.com and we're also on Facebook. Until next time, Poultry Pals, keep clucking, keep learning and keep it eggciting. This is Jennifer signing off from Poultry Nerds.
Outtro: 22:56
Mhm.
